Working Time Act: Time for the nanny state to grow up?

[Purple]

This thread was split from another. I did not post title.

Aren't you self employed? Does the directive apply to those who own their own businesses? I didn't think so. Or do you mean that your employees were forced to work beyond the statutory maximum hours?

I'm an employee of a business in which I own a share. We limit the overtime worked by our employees so that they do not breach the directive. They are not happy about it but what can we do? It limits their earnings for no good reason and adds cost to the business. We have never forced anyone to do any overtime but now we do force them not to work it. Like I said, stupid law.

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

I'm an employee of a business in which I own a share. We limit the overtime worked by our employees so that they do not breach the directive. They are not happy about it but what can we do? It limits their earnings for no good reason and adds cost to the business. We have never forced anyone to do any overtime but now we do force them not to work it. Like I said, stupid law.

On the flip side does it not limit the hours people can be expected/obliged to work for free.

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

On the flip side does it not limit the hours people can be expected/obliged to work for free.

Yes but that can also be done with a contract. If someone wants to work, and is under no pressure from their employer, why stop them?

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

Yes but that can also be done with a contract. If someone wants to work, and is under no pressure from their employer, why stop them?

Because people (employee and employer) take it to excess.

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

Because people (employee and employer) take it to excess.

If there is no coercion and they are adults isn't it their own business?

 

[joejoe]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

If there is no coercion and they are adults isn't it their own business?

I don't think so, is it not the owness not on the employer to ensure all employees adhere to legislation including the company? This I would say is the reason, her now exemployers have brought in a new contract of emloyment after she left.

Joejoe

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

If there is no coercion and they are adults isn't it their own business?

Well we're dragging this off topic, so maybe Clubman can split the topic.

Purple - if theres legislation governing it then no?

Overtime is the amount of time someone works beyond normal working hours. Normal hours may be determined in several ways:

• by custom (what is considered healthy or reasonable by society),
• by practices of a given trade or profession,
• by legislation,
• by agreement between employers and workers or their representatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtime

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

I don't think so, is it not the owness not on the employer to ensure all employees adhere to legislation including the company?

OK, I should have said, "If there is no coercion and they are adults should it not be their own business?".

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

OK, I should have said, "If there is no coercion and they are adults should it not be their own business?".

Thats a discussion for a seperate thread no?

Your question, is can employers, and employees self regulate overtime. Well yes. But then I ask, can it be abused. Also yes. This thread being an example of it. IMO. I would say the abuse of unpaid overtime is common tbh, especially in certain industries.

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

Thats a discussion for a seperate thread no?

Your question, is can employers, and employees self regulate overtime. Well yes. But then I ask, can it be abused. Also yes. This thread being an example of it. IMO. I would say the abuse of unpaid overtime is common tbh, especially in certain industries.

I agree that it can be abused but the bigger question is how invasive should the government get? This legislation restricts our basic freedom to work the hours that we want to work. How far should the state poke it's nose into the way we live our lives? Why should choices freely made by adults be any of their business?

Anyway, I'll stop pulling the thread off topic.

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

I don't have any more to add to what I've ready posted tbh.

 

[MugsGame]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

This legislation restricts our basic freedom to work the hours that we want to work. How far should the state poke it's nose into the way we live our lives?

I've always wondered if Bertie's own working hours are covered by the working time act!

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

I've always wondered if Bertie's own working hours are covered by the working time act!

Isn't he providing an essential public service?

 

[ubiquitous]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

This legislation restricts our basic freedom to work the hours that we want to work.

...only as employees. There is nothing to stop a contractor or self-employed person from working themselves into an early grave. This is the essential stupidity of this law.

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

...only as employees. There is nothing to stop a contractor or self-employed person from working themselves into an early grave. This is the essential stupidity of this law.

I agree. The premise of the law seems to be that employees are stupid and need to be protected from scheeming and exploitative employers by a materialistic government. This may have been the case when Dickens was a scrivener but it is offensive to all concerned in this day and age.

 

[werner]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

I agree. The premise of the law seems to be that employees are stupid and need to be protected from scheeming and exploitative employers by a materialistic government. This may have been the case when Dickens was a scrivener but it is offensive to all concerned in this day and age.

On the contrary there is a staggering amount of abuse of the directive both with low paid workers and young entrees to various professional bodies being coerced into excessive hours etc.

Employees really need to be protected from unscruplous employers.

I have friends that work in the investigative areas of ..... ( I don't think I should post of ....) and you would be shocked to know of the type of abuse that go's on.

 

[ubiquitous]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

On the contrary there is a staggering amount of abuse of the directive both with ... young entrees to various professional bodies being coerced into excessive hours etc.

You mean trainee doctors? They are exempt from the Act. Which shows how useful it is

 

[Purple]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

On the contrary there is a staggering amount of abuse of the directive both with low paid workers and young entrees to various professional bodies being coerced into excessive hours etc.

Employees really need to be protected from unscruplous employers.

If they knew that long hours were expected when they took the job and they made the decision to take it anyway then what's the problem? When I started work I knew that the job required 6.5 days (65-68 hours) a week. Knowing this I still took the job so I was not entitled to moan about it being unfair. If I didn't like it I knew where the door was.

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

If they knew that long hours were expected when they took the job and they made the decision to take it anyway then what's the problem? When I started work I knew that the job required 6.5 days (65-68 hours) a week. Knowing this I still took the job so I was not entitled to moan about it being unfair. If I didn't like it I knew where the door was.

If you don't know about it, and its not in the contract, but the employee takes the job, then afterwards realises that working beyond the agree hours is expected what then?

 

[aircobra19]

Re: Should she be paid for overtime?

I agree. The premise of the law seems to be that employees are stupid and need to be protected from and exploitative employers by a materialistic government. This may have been the case when Dickens was a scrivener but it is offensive to all concerned in this day and age.

I think the law has to work for the lowest common denominator, and for eveveryone. Do you think that no explotation goes on in this day an age? IMO its alive and well.