When will the downward spiral in the stockmarket end?

I heard on the news that if the dollar falls lower than €1.60 President Bush is going to call Trichet and tell him to lower european interest rates! How true that is I don't know.

So Bush could get the ECB rate reduction that the French politicians have been looking for.... strange bed fellows indeed!

Personally I reckon a call from Bush to Trichet is the one thing guaranteed to keep rates where they are.
 
Wrong, eh? Using the S&P 500 as an example, the lowest close around the time of my message was 1273, on the 10th - yesterdays' close was 1276. Granted intraday low was 1257, but that it recovered hints at some strength at this level. The NYSE (which is heavy in financial stocks) did set a lower low close yesterday but also closed substantially off it's lows.

So - wrong ?? Too soon to tell for definite, but I would say not wrong YET is a reasonable statement.

Was the 10th March the market lows ?

Any thoughts? Commodities are getting it in the neck, strength in financials and tech.
 

You have shown a list of negative articles written by journalists - what has that got to do with anything? There will ALWAYS be negativity, often justified, but it alone proves nothing.
 
It's not about the negative journalism, it's about the US financial system being in meltdown.

The US financials have yet to mark to market the true value of their subprime, then there's the 80/20 mortgages, then the HELOC's, then there's the rating corrections, then there's the monolines, then there's the continuous negative economic data....etc

When the above is cleaned out and positive data starts to be produced, it is probable the S&P will have hit a bottom.

If you really want to talk TA, you should try www.tickerforum.org A lot of the guys there could offer a much better argument than I could on the TA front.

Sure, there will always be negativity, but has it all ever added up so clearly?

I can honestly not see what will keep the S&P above 1250 much longer. A short-term resistance maybe.
 
Mish today was making the very good point that mortgage resets are not the horror story that they were a year ago in the states because short term interest rates are falling so fast that a lot of these mortgages will actually reset lower than their original rates. He is normally a perma-bear so it was interesting hearing this point of view. However, he does qualify it by saying that a lot of the teaser rates were interest-only and they will reset to a higher payment no matter what interest rates are doing
 
Mish today was making the very good point that mortgage resets are not the horror story that they were a year ago in the states because short term interest rates are falling so fast that a lot of these mortgages will actually reset lower than their original rates. He is normally a perma-bear so it was interesting hearing this point of view. However, he does qualify it by saying that a lot of the teaser rates were interest-only and they will reset to a higher payment no matter what interest rates are doing

I also heard that, in order to justify the sub-prime write downs to date, something like 85% of sub-prime mortgages will have to default. The "pennies-on-the-dollar" writedowns so far may have been excessive, especially if the US avoids a major recession.
 
It's not about the negative journalism, it's about the US financial system being in meltdown.

The US financials have yet to mark to market the true value of their subprime, then there's the 80/20 mortgages, then the HELOC's, then there's the rating corrections, then there's the monolines, then there's the continuous negative economic data....etc

When the above is cleaned out and positive data starts to be produced, it is probable the S&P will have hit a bottom.

If you really want to talk TA, you should try www.tickerforum.org A lot of the guys there could offer a much better argument than I could on the TA front.

Sure, there will always be negativity, but has it all ever added up so clearly?

I can honestly not see what will keep the S&P above 1250 much longer. A short-term resistance maybe.

I think the use of the word "meltdown" is not appropriate here, there is some commentary that suggests that the write-downs due to subprime have been excessive and that the net effect will be no worse than the Savings & Loan scandal of the late '80's and probably not as bad as the Dotcom collapse in 2000.

Remember, we are talking about the US here. Most of the negative articles in the press fail to take account of the American character - for the most part, they are intelligent, inventive, cunning, determined and they will not allow a "meltdown" to happen. It is very dangerous to under-estimate them. Remember too, that they will soon be getting rid of the worst thing to happen to them in a long while (the moron in the White House) and that this change could be hugely stimulative.

Anyway, back to my orignal question - do people think we have seen the worst of the stock market woes or are we in proctologist territory (we are going to see a lot more bottoms.. ) ??
 
yes i think we have seen the worst of the stock market woes. market bottoms historically have been seen when there is capitulation etc. the monday the bear collapsed there was capitulation, the fed came to the rescue and we are 1000 points higher on the dow as we speak. there were two rallies since then where the number of advancing stocks outpaced declining ones by 9-1. this is an extremely bullish sign. one that historically had lead to big gains in the 3, 6 and 12 month periods after.

there was a 9-1 down day between the up days so this takes a little lustre off it but the 9-1 up days have a lot more power than the 9-1 down days. i feel we are on the way back up , just look at today, jobless claims were very bad and the market was down 0.25%. the volatility is way way down, when UBS said they had a 19 billion writedown we had a huge rally. these are all signs of market bottoms. i am back in the market and am up already. if the down breaks above 12750 on good volume soon then i will be doubling my positions.
 
yes i think we have seen the worst of the stock market woes. market bottoms historically have been seen when there is capitulation etc. the monday the bear collapsed there was capitulation, the fed came to the rescue and we are 1000 points higher on the dow as we speak. there were two rallies since then where the number of advancing stocks outpaced declining ones by 9-1. this is an extremely bullish sign. one that historically had lead to big gains in the 3, 6 and 12 month periods after.

there was a 9-1 down day between the up days so this takes a little lustre off it but the 9-1 up days have a lot more power than the 9-1 down days. i feel we are on the way back up , just look at today, jobless claims were very bad and the market was down 0.25%. the volatility is way way down, when UBS said they had a 19 billion writedown we had a huge rally. these are all signs of market bottoms. i am back in the market and am up already. if the down breaks above 12750 on good volume soon then i will be doubling my positions.
Which of the us stoks have you made gains?
 
not allowed to mention stock names but they specialise in potash and fertilizers. more evidence recently of the turnaround is lots of bad news in the US and the market is not selling off. if a bit of good news comes out it goes up. it definetely has bottomed. oil and gas stocks are going to be very stron
 
"Excessive writedowns to date".

Wachovia (massive US bank) have just admitted they spent $25 billion on a west coast bank in 2005 or 2006 that probably would be worth max 10% of that today.

The managment also admitted that default rates have surged as equity in the properties have gone to zero. Thats why they have had to go and get rescued by new investors.

Does anyone really think these banks are going to get more exposure to the mortgage markets in the next couple of years

The main support for the Dow is the fact that the Fed has devalued the dollar Latin America style so much so that the international US companies will be making massive profits in US$ terms.
 
Just my 2 cents worth, but I don't think we've seen the end this slide at all. It seems to me that a lot of factors are now coming together to create the 'perfect storm' for the economy. Rising inflation, falling house prices, rising unemployment. Throw in this awful credit crunch and it would seem that everything is in place for a protracted slowdown. I feel we may be in for a good many years (3+) of, if not recession, stagnation. Hope I'm wrong...
 
u are indeed wrong. the US inflation rate is not that high at all. oil will continue rising but we can absorb much more higher oil prices easily enough. the dow broke through 12750 today, a big resistance point. we are in for a big rally - watch this space
 
Looks like the rally isn't going to happen for a while! At the start of this downturn I thought it would be mid/late 2009 before we saw any reasonable upturn in the market. Then a few months ago I became a bit more optimistic. But now I am back to my origional belief - late 2009. It seems the heads of a few more high profile banks/developers will be on the chopping block before this downturn is over.
 
the nasdaq is doing quite well, which is the sign for a new market bull run. financials are still holding the markets back. we are in a correction at present and its quite mild
 
Market has lost 3% again today, does no one care, has everyone sold [looks like it]?? At Q1/2005 values, IMO its heading for Q1/2004 before year end

Oops looks like my prediction in March came earlier than expected! Interesting piece in yesterdays Indo by Anatole Kaletsky entitled "Forget credit crunch, oil is a greater threat". If oil stays above $140per barrel then in the medium term [6 months] not only will Irish equity get more severely toasted but the same for all major bourses. So continue for the time being shorting stoxxs, with the immense choice.

But on the good news side in Kaletsky's opinion and IMO oil will sub$100 before year end. With wheat futures recently taking an overdue nose bleed, should oil soon follow? If it does then this is good for equity markets? Opinions...
 
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