Train delay compensation - Iarnród Éireann/Irish Rail

arbitron

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UK trains are notoriously expensive and unpredictable. They do, however, have good delay refund policies. Recently I was delayed by 50 minutes and received a 50% refund (10 minutes longer and it would have been 100%). Conductor announced 4 times that we were entitle to a refund, told us the website to go to. Automated email followed reminding me to apply for the refund. All very easy.

It made me wonder what Iarnród Éireann/Irish Rail do for delays. According to their website:

My train was delayed. When am I entitled to a refund?​


If your train was delayed due to circumstances within the control of Iarnród Éireann the following apply;

If you are more than one hour late in arriving at your destination, we will normally offer you discount vouchers for use against future ticket purchases. The value of discount vouchers is based on the length of delay and the fare you have paid for your single journey.

For delays of one to two hours, we will give you vouchers to the value of 50 percent of the fare you have paid for the portion of your journey affected.

For delays over two hours, we will give you vouchers to the value of 100 percent of the fare you have paid for the portion of your journey affected.

I think this is a poor show. The line "we will normally offer" is vague and suggests they have some leeway. 50% back for a 1-2 hour delay is not great considering the relatively short distances of train trips here. Discount vouchers for future train travel is useless for anyone who travels infrequently or who is just visiting Ireland. It should be a partial/complete refund depending on the length of delay. That would take the edge off things for customers and give IE/IR a real financial consequence for delays.
 
Delay refunds were only brought in in the UK years after privatisation, somewhat prompted by consumer unrest about the private operators being compensated for delays due to network issues but not passing on any of that to affected consumers. Introducing them here would only mean passengers paying more to cover the full cost of refunds along with the staff and infrastructure required to administer. So for every Euro you might get in compensation, you would likely pay multiples in higher fares.
 
Delay refunds were only brought in in the UK years after privatisation, somewhat prompted by consumer unrest about the private operators being compensated for delays due to network issues but not passing on any of that to affected consumers. Introducing them here would only mean passengers paying more to cover the full cost of refunds along with the staff and infrastructure required to administer. So for every Euro you might get in compensation, you would likely pay multiples in higher fares.
Also Irish rail prices are fantastic. People in the UK pay very high prices, and it's not just the UK. Privatisation has also wreaked havoc for many commuters in the UK. I think I got to Galway or Waterford for about 20 Euro, and that's landing in city center Galway and a 5 minute walk in Waterford, it's further in Cork.
 
Good idea to force IE to give refunds for delays.

Likewise, the government should compensate car drivers who get delayed by unexpected traffic. That would take the edge off things for customers and give the government a real financial consequence for delays.


Brendan
 
Good idea to force IE to give refunds for delays.

Likewise, the government should compensate car drivers who get delayed by unexpected traffic. That would take the edge off things for customers and give the government a real financial consequence for delays.


Brendan
I know 100pc from travelling last week, that the excellent Finnish State Railways give options of bus, taxi or full refunds and/ or compensation, as is the case for last week with the yellow cold weather warnings which has resulted in delays and cancellations as temperatures have gone - 25C and lower even - 40C across the country. They cannot leave you in the lurch, if you needed that journey then they must provide you transport somehow.

They use dynamic pricing too, with 20 fare segments depending on demand. That said a 5hr 500km journey fare can cost as low as 20E all the way up to approximately 100E, depending on when tickets were purchased.

So there is another world besides colonial ties to Blighty which the bosses of Iarnróid Éireann could research for example models. They also have proper restaurant dining carriage with no smell of chips or burgers anywhere, just wholesome food served on a plate, steel cutlery, coffee in cups, ice cream and beer on draught!
 
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Also Irish rail prices are fantastic. People in the UK pay very high prices, and it's not just the UK. Privatisation has also wreaked havoc for many commuters in the UK. I think I got to Galway or Waterford for about 20 Euro, and that's landing in city center Galway and a 5 minute walk in Waterford, it's further in Cork.
Thomas Kent Railway station is no more than 5 mins to Cork centre, to Pana - ask Leper. There is a newer Horgans Quay exit which is a much quicker walk than the main 'Glanmire Rd' station entrance.
 
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Look at the Consumer Rights Act 2022. Plenty in that to help you. Although the CCPC is pretty quiet about it all.
 
The European Communities Rail Passengers’ Rights and Obligations Regs are likely more pertinent. Former CIE companies were excluded from the Consumer Rights acts, not sure if that exclusion was removed.
 
Good idea to force IE to give refunds for delays.

Likewise, the government should compensate car drivers who get delayed by unexpected traffic. That would take the edge off things for customers and give the government a real financial consequence for delays.


Brendan
Yip think of how much they'd have to pay out over the Children's hospital alone....
 
I don't believe in penalising companies for the sake of it and I don't think that the stick approach solves everything.

My main issue with IE is that they are giving vouchers for future travel instead of reimbursement.

According to the NTA:

You have certain rights when travelling by Rail in Europe under EU Regulation 1371/2007...

Compensation​

If you decide to continue your journey as planned or to accept alternative transport to your destination, you may be entitled to compensation as outlined below:

  • 25% of the ticket price if the delay is between 1 and 2 hours
  • 50% if the ticket price if the delay is more than 2 hours

IE actually have a very good punctuality record compared to other European countries (usually top 10), with the caveat that the best performing systems are typically geographically smaller states like Estonia, Latvia, Netherlands. I'm sure it is easier to be punctual when you only have a few main routes and all from 2 hub stations in one city.

Delay refunds were only brought in in the UK years after privatisation, somewhat prompted by consumer unrest about the private operators being compensated for delays due to network issues but not passing on any of that to affected consumers. Introducing them here would only mean passengers paying more to cover the full cost of refunds along with the staff and infrastructure required to administer. So for every Euro you might get in compensation, you would likely pay multiples in higher fares.

I don't see how that follows. We have almost 100% reliability (so virtually every service runs), almost 90-95% punctuality (arriving within 10 minutes of schedule) and many passengers have travel passes, so the levels of compensation would be low. As I mentioned above, there is already a requirement for IE to pay monetary compensation, they just seem to have decided to offer vouchers for future travel instead.

Good idea to force IE to give refunds for delays.

Likewise, the government should compensate car drivers who get delayed by unexpected traffic. That would take the edge off things for customers and give the government a real financial consequence for delays.


Brendan

That's a strange comparison to make.

Rail will become increasingly important as we try to make a dent in our carbon emissions. In order to attract paying customers they need to be reassured that delays will be minimal and that they will receive compensation if the service is not delivered, just like with airlines. If I am travelling Dublin to Cork, I am 95% confident that I will arrive on time. If I am in the unlucky 5% and I arrive something like 2 hours late then I am unlikely to opt for a train again if I can avoid it.

The psychology of refunds is really interesting - we tend to subconsciously label them as discretionary income and they can increase our likelihood to spend. If you have ever received a refund from a company that is accompanied by a future discount then the chances are you have been nudged into spending more money with them. IE could afford to give delayed passengers a partial refund, offer them a 10% discount off their next trip, thereby converting an unhappy traveller into a potential loyal customer.

Those of us who can drive (and can afford it) have the luxury of adjusting time of departure, routes, etc. to avoid delays. A lot of particularly vulnerable people are dependent on public transport and not all of them have free travel passes. Even if you are travelling for free your time should be valued and companies should be held accountable for failing to deliver. Not to mention the fact that taxpayers fund a significant part of CIE activities. If other countries can achieve punctuality of 99% that should be our aim also.
 
Thomas Kent Railway station is no more than 5 mins to Cork centre, to Pana - ask Leper. There is a newer Horgans Quay exit which is a much quicker walk than the main 'Glanmire Rd' station entrance.

Are you feeling lucky or is your name Rob Heffernan or something?

It's at least 900m to the nearest point in Pana which is not a "no more than 5 mins" walk!!
 
None of us would go to Pana via McCurtain St or Merchants Quay - instead you'd cut through the old west Cork short cut, over the bridge, down Parnell Place and a side street to Pana.
 
If you wish to pay UK prices I'm sure they could have a better refund policy.

Somehow I doubt anyone wants to pay UK prices (Birmingham to London standard fare day return £106 (€120). Equivalent standard day return Dub to Cork, €66.
 
If people want a more onerous system that refunds them in cash, then it will get a lot busier which in unlikely to cost less than the current system.

If you wish to pay UK prices I'm sure they could have a better refund policy.

Somehow I doubt anyone wants to pay UK prices (Birmingham to London standard fare day return £106 (€120). Equivalent standard day return Dub to Cork, €66.

The high UK rail prices are not due to refund policies.

As I mentioned above, EU rules already require IE to have a delay refund policy similar to the UK, but for some reason they offer vouchers for future travel instead.

Given that IE has a much better reliability and punctuality record than the UK, we are only talking about a small number of cases where they would have to pay out, so it would cost them a minimal amount to proactively give refunds on the occasions where they do arrive 1+ hours late.

There is no way this would significantly increase the cost of tickets.
 
The high UK rail prices are not due to refund policies.
I didn't say they were, it's just logical to assume that cash refunds would be more attractive and prompt more applications. It follows that cash refunds instead of future travel vouchers that costs them nothing, then the money to fund that and pay for any additional staff is going to come from increased ticket prices. They'd likely have to implement new payment systems to handle those refunds in place of the current system of posting out vouchers. They're running at a massive loss as it is.
 
I didn't say they were, it's just logical to assume that cash refunds would be more attractive and prompt more applications. It follows that cash refunds instead of future travel vouchers that costs them nothing, then the money to fund that and pay for any additional staff is going to come from increased ticket prices. They'd likely have to implement new payment systems to handle those refunds in place of the current system of posting out vouchers. They're running at a massive loss as it is.

But they are already required to give cash refunds, they are just not complying with the regulations.

We are probably talking about a few trains a week.

They already have a refund system for tickets, there is no reason to think they would need a whole new one.

How much are you estimating it would cost them?
 
If you wish to pay UK prices I'm sure they could have a better refund policy.

Somehow I doubt anyone wants to pay UK prices (Birmingham to London standard fare day return £106 (€120). Equivalent standard day return Dub to Cork, €66.
Bristol to London return at peak is £164 /€190 for a 170 km journey each way. The Cork journey is 265km each way.
 
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