total income of porter & nurse as per the sunday indo

[liaconn]

The point I'm making is that elderly people were entitled to protest when they were being targetted in isolation of other well off people in the community. I said the medical card should have been removed in conjunction with other fiscal policies focussed on wealthy young parents, millionaire developers and bankers, overpaid and pensioned politicians etc. Of course anybody earning over €70,000 doesn't need a full free medical service. But fiscal policies should target everybody equally. I think a lot of elderly people, already bewildered by the loss of their savings, were terrified of becoming an easy target for Government. Its the use of the words 'greedy and selfish' to describe them all that I find offensive.

 

[Sunny]

The point I'm making is that elderly people were entitled to protest when they were being targetted in isolation of other well off people in the community. I said the medical card should have been removed in conjunction with other fiscal policies focussed on wealthy young parents, millionaire developers and bankers, overpaid and pensioned politicians etc. Of course anybody earning over €70,000 doesn't need a full free medical service. But fiscal policies should target everybody equally. I think a lot of elderly people, already bewildered by the loss of their savings, were terrified of becoming an easy target for Government. Its the use of the words 'greedy and selfish' to describe them all that I find offensive.

Fair enough

 

[Shawady]

Part of the problem was they initially set a low threshold for pensioners to lose their medical card but were to put in place a scheme were most pensioners would receive €400 a year. I think this confused a lot of people.
Their message was not very clear and if they had originally come out and said anyone earning under 70K would not be affected, there would have been no protests.

 

[Purple]

How dare you.

Of course anybody earning over €70,000 doesn't need a full free medical service.

Make up your mind.

I agree that everyone should be targeted, with well off parents not getting tax free social welfare and well off pensioners not getting universal free healthcare.
My own father is retired and after 55 years working has lost 85% of his pension fund. Them's the breaks.

 

[liaconn]

Make up your mind.

I agree that everyone should be targeted, with well off parents not getting tax free social welfare and well off pensioners not getting universal free healthcare.
My own father is retired and after 55 years working has lost 85% of his pension fund. Them's the breaks.

My how dare you related to your statement that they were being greedy and selfish. From my first post I made it clear that I felt the card should have been removed in conjunction with other measures. I have not changed my mind on that.

 

[Purple]

My how dare you related to your statement that they were being greedy and selfish. From my first post I made it clear that I felt the card should have been removed in conjunction with other measures. I have not changed my mind on that.

And I made it clear that I was talking about the rich pensioners who protested in front of the Dail about it... for feck sake, they were singing "we shall overcome" as if they were the victim of some egregious breach of basic human right instead of well healed pensioners who had a freebie taken away.

 

[liaconn]

And I made it clear that I was talking about the rich pensioners who protested in front of the Dail about it... for feck sake, they were singing "we shall overcome" as if they were the victim of some egregious breach of basic human right instead of well healed pensioners who had a freebie taken away.

Well, I think you're being very harsh. You obviously don't agree with my view, I don't agree with your's. We'll just have to differ on this one.

 

[spursfan1234]

from the bi weekly pay checks these two people get they earn a combined income of far more than 60k. this is the usual rubbish that people go on about. they take their basic pay even though they always earn more than their basic pay with over time and double time and all these other crazy allowances.

if they cant afford a mortgage of 190k on this money etc then they are wasting an awful lot of money.

and as a side not i know several nurses who love night duty due to the fact that they get a lot more money for it and spend most of the night sleeping

 

[Mommah]

I'm pretty confident we have the highest ratio of nurses per capita in the OECD.
Pity so many of them are walking around in suits with clipboards.

 

[lou2]

I'm pretty confident we have the highest ratio of nurses per capita in the OECD.
Pity so many of them are walking around in suits with clipboards.

I think many people have this idea that there are loads of nurses walking around hospitals in suits with clipboards....that's just not the case. A very small minority of nurses are in management....but that's all...a small minority. Let's get real here.

 

[room305]

This is a dangerous argument. In many European countries the falling birthrate means that there is a looming crisis. Today's workers are tomorrow's pensioners. Today's children are tomorrow's taxpayers. Those who resent subsidies being given to to today's children will one day find themselves relying on the tax receipts from those same children to pay for their state pensions and state-subsidised healthcare.

One simple move would be to ask people to fund their own pensions rather than rely on the state to do it for them. Ditto healthcare.

Failing that, there is, as has been pointed out elsewhere, no shortage of individuals elsewhere in the world only too glad to travel here and work.

I would. The global population growth is undoubtedly true - but the population growth is not coming from Western Europe. Along with declining birth rates, Western Europe will, because of population growth elsewhere, continue to have a sustained period of immigration.

If you end up with a two-tier country of old 'natives' and young immigrants, do you think the young immigrants will really want to subsidise the aged through their taxes? There are tumultuous times ahead.

Why would young immigrants think any differently of subsidising the elderly than young natives?

The elderly have been treated like dirt in this country by a brash and greedy celtic tiger generation who have given new meaning to the word 'selfish'.

The elderly have largely been "treated like dirt" by the political party to which they lend the greatest support - Fianna Fail. They were also some of the greatest beneficiaries of the so-called Celtic Tiger. Not speaking of your father in particular, just in the general case.

 

[Purple]

The elderly have been treated like dirt in this country by a brash and greedy celtic tiger generation who have given new meaning to the word 'selfish'.

That's a great sound bite but can you substantiate it in any way?

 

[MOB]

Why would young immigrants think any differently of subsidising the elderly than young natives?.

Because the elderly would not be of immigrant stock. I thought I made the point clearly enough. But it is not something we need to worry about in Ireland.

 

[room305]

Because the elderly would not be of immigrant stock. I thought I made the point clearly enough. But it is not something we need to worry about in Ireland.

I still don't get it. If I moved from a country where I couldn't get work to one where I could, I don't think it would bother me too much that my taxes were being used to subsidise benefits for the elderly natives. Presuming of course I was subject to the same taxes and entitled to the same benefits upon retirement as everybody else.

Can you point to a real-world example country where such discontent reigns?

 

[liaconn]

That's a great sound bite but can you substantiate it in any way?

Purple,I said, after our last heated debate, that we obviously can't agree on this. I have given my views and some personal examples
and acknowledged that, if you don't agree you don't agree. End of, surely??

 

[MOB]

I still don't get it. If I moved from a country where I couldn't get work to one where I could, I don't think it would bother me too much that my taxes were being used to subsidise benefits for the elderly natives. Presuming of course I was subject to the same taxes and entitled to the same benefits upon retirement as everybody else.

Can you point to a real-world example country where such discontent reigns?

There is no country with a well developed welfare state yet facing a huge pension funding deficit as a result of a shrinking population, much less one where the working population has seen huge immigration to make up for the "shrinking natives". But these things take ddecades

 

[Purple]

Purple,I said, after our last heated debate, that we obviously can't agree on this. I have given my views and some personal examples
and acknowledged that, if you don't agree you don't agree. End of, surely??

Just because we don't agree it doesn't mean that we can't explore the others position.

 

[liaconn]

Just because we don't agree it doesn't mean that we can't explore the others position.

We've already done that. I'm not going there again. Wasn't impressed with some of the things you said but agreed to differ rather than get any more heated and angry. Okay?

 

[Purple]

We've already done that. I'm not going there again. Wasn't impressed with some of the things you said but agreed to differ rather than get any more heated and angry. Okay?

This is a discussion forum. When you make sweeping statements and back them up with nothing but thin air you should not be surprised if people call you out on it.

 

[room305]

There is no country with a well developed welfare state yet facing a huge pension funding deficit as a result of a shrinking population, much less one where the working population has seen huge immigration to make up for the "shrinking natives". But these things take ddecades

So you say it's never been an issue for anywhere else in the world and you stated it won't be an issue for Ireland in the future.

Yet you felt confident enough to describe it as both a pressing and self-evident problem.

Contradictory, no?