School Closures

C

cremeegg

Registered User
Messages
4,156
Most of our local schools are closed today because of the non event of a storm.

In my opinion it was irresponsible of the department of education to suggest to schools that they should close.

The closure means disruption to the lives of working parents, (tax individualisation), missed days in the children's education, and a general erosion of respect for the serious matter of education.

It seems to me that closing schools like this is merely an opportunity for a teachers day off and hang the consequences to anyone else.

Our local primary school, where teachers earn from €32,000 to over €60,000 and have a state guaranteed pension with children aged from 4 upwards, is closed to day.

100 meters down the road, at the local play school, where childcare workers earn from €8.65 to €10.50 per hour and no pension, with children aged from 4 downward, is open as usual.

This is the kind of thing that creates contempt among those who have to work for a living towards the public sector.
 
to be honest, if there is a red weather warning issued for the area, with gusts around 130kmh it's very dangerous to be out in that... I don't think it's the teachers decision to close the school, it's issued by dept of education isn't it?

Imagine a child, walking in the school gates getting hit by a piece of debris flying around in the wind... being pushed onto the road by a gust of wind... imagine the uproar of any incident happening to a child attending school when it's recommended for that school to be closed...

I agree it's a big inconvenience trying to find alternate arrangements when a child can't attend school ... but they aren't closed just "to allow teachers to take a day off"...
 
TBH cremeegg it sounds to me more like you are trying to justify your contempt with this argument than vice versa. First and foremost in these decisions would be the welfare of the children so I personally would have no problem with the decision to close schools in a red weather warning. The argument that it is inconvenient for parents is not the responsibility of schools and nor should it ever be used in decisions over whether the school should be closed or not.
 
Ceist Beag said:
TBH cremeegg it sounds to me more like you are trying to justify your contempt with this argument than vice versa. First and foremost in these decisions would be the welfare of the children so I personally would have no problem with the decision to close schools in a red weather warning. The argument that it is inconvenient for parents is not the responsibility of schools and nor should it ever be used in decisions over whether the school should be closed or not.
Click to expand...

I don't think schools or teachers care more about the children's welfare than the parents themselves! I don't really have a problem with schools closing in red warning areas but surely it should be up to parents whether they want their children to go to school in it if there is no logistical reason for the school to be closed. If they are going to close schools, why not close every place of work and tell people to stay indoors? Or if it is really unsafe for children, why don't the teachers go in and use the day for one of their staff days? I am not bashing teachers but I also don't agree with just closing schools to both pupils and staff because of a weather warning when every other place of work has to muddle through.
 
Sunny said:
Or if it is really unsafe for children, why don't the teachers go in and use the day for one of their staff days?
Click to expand...
Fair point Sunny, hard to argue with that alright. I wouldn't necessarily agree with your first argument though. I think a lot of parents would send their children in to school to avoid having to deal with the problem of having to mind them or get someone else to mind them even if the conditions were as they are in the West today!
 
cremeegg said:
Most of our local schools are closed today because of the non event of a storm.

In my opinion it was irresponsible of the department of education to suggest to schools that they should close.

The closure means disruption to the lives of working parents, (tax individualisation), missed days in the children's education, and a general erosion of respect for the serious matter of education.

It seems to me that closing schools like this is merely an opportunity for a teachers day off and hang the consequences to anyone else.

Our local primary school, where teachers earn from €32,000 to over €60,000 and have a state guaranteed pension with children aged from 4 upwards, is closed to day.

100 meters down the road, at the local play school, where childcare workers earn from €8.65 to €10.50 per hour and no pension, with children aged from 4 downward, is open as usual.

This is the kind of thing that creates contempt among those who have to work for a living towards the public sector.
Click to expand...

I kinda feel for you as no one is giving you much sympathy with regards to your post.Kinda like a catch 22 post.

But what would you say if a school or classroom with kids in it was flattened by a large falling tree during the storm.Or if the roof was ripped off and a wall was blown in on top of a classroom full of kids and there was death as a result.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Marion said:
Schools will have to make up for the days closed.

This will take place either during Feb mid term or during the Easter break as per Department of Education guidelines on school closures.

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0016_2014.pdf

Marion
Click to expand...

They don't have to it up by opening for a day extra. Any school can argue that the impact of 1 days closure has minimal impact on tuition that can't be made up through other measures such as prioritising tuition events over non-tuition events. I can guarantee you that no school will make up this missing day by shortening a holiday period.
 
flowerman said:
I kinda feel for you as no one is giving you much sympathy with regards to your post.Kinda like a catch 22 post.

But what would you say if a school or classroom with kids in it was flattened by a large falling tree during the storm.Or if the roof was ripped off and a wall was blown in on top of a classroom full of kids and there was death as a result.
Click to expand...

That's ridiculous. What if my house that was beside the school was flattened by a large falling tree through the storm and killed my child who was only there because the school was closed for the day. Meanwhile the school escaped any damage. What would the school say then? We can all do what if scenarios but what's the point. If people can go to work in local shops, post offices etc, why can't teachers go to work in schools? We all hear about all this work they do out of the classroom. Why weren't they in school doing it?
 
I believe some schools were closed for a couple of days in some areas and these may well have to make up for lost time under the contingency plans.

What may happen for a one day closure is covered here:

http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/Contingency-arrangements-school-calendar

Guidance for schools in relation to making up for time lost due to unforeseen school closures is included at Appendix B of this circular. This guidance sets out a structured approach to determining the measures to be put in place to make up for time lost. The guidance provides that subject to consensus at local level, any changes to normal practice that can be made to address the shortfalls should be put in place.

Examples of how this might be achieved include:

  • prioritising tuition over other non-tuition activities
  • reducing where possible the length of mock/house examinations
  • consideration of whether learning in the classroom should be prioritised over school tours, etc
  • in the case of second level schools ensuring examination classes attend all classes to the end of May.
Where the above measures are not considered adequate, contingency arrangements to make up for time lost due to extensive or prolonged unforeseen school closures may now also include either or both of the following:
  • The February mid-term break may be reduced by up to three days subject to the requirement that all schools must be closed on the Thursday and Friday of the week in which this break falls.
  • The Easter break may be reduced by up to three days by the school remaining open up to and including the Wednesday immediately preceding the Easter weekend. All schools must be closed on the Thursday and Friday immediately preceding the Easter weekend and remain closed for the remainder of the Easter break as set out in Appendix A of this circular.
The school authority must also take into account the need to provide adequate notice of any changes to the school calendar to pupils, parents and staff.



Marion
 
flowerman said:
Kinda like a catch 22 post.
Click to expand...

+1

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Professional meteorologists saw fit to elevate the warning to Red. School Management had a choice and should stand by that choice. The fact that the storm, or the effect of the storm, was not as dire as some predicted, does not invalidate that choice. I believe that each school will have to make up for time lost.
 
In my school yesterday (it didn't close for snow) only about one third of students turned up in most class groups.

Marion
 
cremeegg said:
Most of our local schools are closed today because of the non event of a storm.

In my opinion it was irresponsible of the department of education to suggest to schools that they should close.

The closure means disruption to the lives of working parents, (tax individualisation), missed days in the children's education, and a general erosion of respect for the serious matter of education.

It seems to me that closing schools like this is merely an opportunity for a teachers day off and hang the consequences to anyone else.

Our local primary school, where teachers earn from €32,000 to over €60,000 and have a state guaranteed pension with children aged from 4 upwards, is closed to day.

100 meters down the road, at the local play school, where childcare workers earn from €8.65 to €10.50 per hour and no pension, with children aged from 4 downward, is open as usual.

This is the kind of thing that creates contempt among those who have to work for a living towards the public sector.
Click to expand...

Another unfounded public service bashing post that seems to be norm on this forum from the "fit" from jumping to conclusions brigade. Even somebody with very limited education could see that the teaching staff had no choice in this. Furthermore, the time will have to be made up later in the year and I am certain that most teachers would have preferred to work today (a cold day in January) rather than make the time up later in sunnier days. And for the record public servants pay towards their pensions and are further penalised by pension levies.

I take the point regarding the €8.65 to €10.50 per hour of the local childcare workers. I would suggest that most of them are on a point under €8.00 too. Not only that they are being forced to upskill at their own expense (see another thread under Work section). They cannot afford to join a trades union and find themselves unrepresented and open to the whim of their employer. Now lets say the weather deteriorated as predicted and the playschool opened and as a result the children and staff suffered injuries. I bet there would be posters on here shouting for legal proceedings to be started against the playschool organizers.
 
Sunny said:
That's ridiculous. What if my house that was beside the school was flattened by a large falling tree through the storm and killed my child who was only there because the school was closed for the day. Meanwhile the school escaped any damage. What would the school say then? We can all do what if scenarios but what's the point. If people can go to work in local shops, post offices etc, why can't teachers go to work in schools? We all hear about all this work they do out of the classroom. Why weren't they in school doing it?
Click to expand...


Like I said its a catch 22 post as in there will be people who will be for it and people who will be against it.The teachers had no say in this,it was a decision from the Department of Education who made the call and I think they were more concerned for the safety of the children,based on weather forecast red alerts and the NECC.


Its a catch 22 so you cant please everyone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Marion said:
In my school yesterday (it didn't close for snow) only about one third of students turned up in most class groups.

Marion
Click to expand...

I remember the year of 1981 and we had 12 inches of snow on the ground.I was in a horrible old battered,leaking and cold prefab building that we called school.
The roof was buckling under the weight of the snow and gale force winds outside.It eventually caved in at 4:15pm,15 minutes after we finished school for the day.
Had the roof caved in 20 minutes earlier than myself and 29 other class mates of mine might not be alive today.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Leper said:
Another unfounded public service bashing post that seems to be norm on this forum from the "fit" from jumping to conclusions brigade. Even somebody with very limited education could see that the teaching staff had no choice in this. Now lets say the weather deteriorated as predicted and the playschool opened and as a result the children and staff suffered injuries. I bet there would be posters on here shouting for legal proceedings to be started against the playschool organizers.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine a world without lawyers.:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqk-CLxrW6s
 
flowerman said:
Like I said its a catch 22 post as in there will be people who will be for it and people who will be against it.The teachers had no say in this,it was a decision from the Department of Education who made the call and I think they were more concerned for the safety of the children,based on weather forecast red alerts and the NECC.


Its a catch 22 so you cant please everyone.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with the decision to close schools for the safety of students. My question is that if the classroom only represents part of a working day for teachers as it often said and which I fully accept, why weren't the teachers in school doing the work that is done on a daily basis outside the classroom such as marking papers, preparing classes, staff meetings, training etc etc. It should be the perfect opportunity to catch up.

If a school had to close because it was unsafe then fair enough but if it was logistically able to open why were some teachers not expected to attempt to get to work like every other employee. This isn't public sector bashing. Nurses still went to work. Guards still went to work. ESB employees went to work. Why are teachers different? Why is it more dangerous for a teacher to go to their place of work than it is for a shop worker in the same village?
 
Sunny said:
I have no problem with the decision to close schools for the safety of students. My question is that if the classroom only represents part of a working day for teachers as it often said and which I fully accept, why weren't the teachers in school doing the work that is done on a daily basis outside the classroom such as marking papers, preparing classes, staff meetings, training etc etc. It should be the perfect opportunity to catch up.

If a school had to close because it was unsafe then fair enough but if it was logistically able to open why were some teachers not expected to attempt to get to work like every other employee. This isn't public sector bashing. Nurses still went to work. Guards still went to work. ESB employees went to work. Why are teachers different? Why is it more dangerous for a teacher to go to their place of work than it is for a shop worker in the same village?
Click to expand...

Tell you what,go and call the Department Of Education an ask them for an answer to your question.

They made the decision so go ask them instead.




Someone will probably call Joe Duffy tomorrow to complain about it.

"Its a disgrace Joe"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
flowerman said:
Tell you what,go and call the Department Of Education an ask them for an answer to your question.

They made the decision so go ask them instead.




Someone will probably call Joe Duffy tomorrow to complain about it.

"Its a disgrace Joe"
Click to expand...

Why are you blaming the department of education? They didn't tell schools to completely shut down. They left it up to the schools themselves. My question is if schools decide not to ask students to attend for safety ,why are teachers not expected to attend if the school is able to open? Is a school more dangerous for teachers than other places of work for other people? Does the storm target schools or something?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top