RTE People In Need Telethon - Why?

[rainyday]

Cuchaillain posted in ;

It was from Crumlin childrens hospital looking for €5 per month to build a new wing and new outpatient department. [...] But I do think the Government should be building the new wing etc and maybe us greatful parents helping to kit it out

Which brings me nicely to tonight's rant - the [broken link removed]. I fear I'm turning into Victor Meldrew, but this just turns my stomach.

Look at the board members;

Bill Attley, Moya Doherty, Clare Duignan, Liam Farrell, David Harvey (Chairman), Margaret Heffernan, John Hogan, Angela Holohan, Pat Kinsley, Christy Maye, Ger O'Mahoney, Josephine Nolan, Willie O'Reilly, Gerry O'Sullivan, Fran Rooney, Des Whelan

I don't know all of these heads, but I do know that if they were genuinely concerned about helping out charities, Moya & Margaret could drop €4 million each into the hat without noticing any significant difference on their net worth, which would exceed the entire amount collected on the last telethon. If Margaret wanted to do something about poverty, maybe she would consider paying her shop girls in Dunnes an extra 50c per hour and risk taking home just a few less million herself this year. But no, they prefer to stick a pile of 2nd rate celebs on RTE chasing €20 donations from school kids & office workers with guilt-tripping coverage of the elderly and the disabled. Why the hell should the elderly & the disabled be dependent on charitable handouts for their care?

If we, as a society, want to demonstrate any serious commitment towards caring for those in such difficult situations, then we need the state to fund these services as a matter of right, not a 'gift' handed down from Margaret Heffernan. Any here's the bad news people - If you are really concerned about these services, you are going to have to pay more tax to fund these services. I'm genuinely not trying to score a political point here - I'm just amazed that so many people are prepared to salve their conscience by dressing up in drag & collecting a few hundred quid for 'charadeee', but the idea of using your vote to change the system seems to be out of the question.

 

[rainyday]

Spacer replied;

"If you are really concerned about these services, you are going to have to pay more tax to fund these services."

I think the problem is that we already are - it's just that the money isn't going to the right places.

The 50 million spent on the electronic votig machines is a case in point. This amount would have made a right dent in the cost of a new wing in Crumlin Hospital, but instead it's gone to into someone's hip pocket and isn't coming back.

This would be bad enough if it was an isolated incident, but it isn't. There are hundreds of smaller instances of such waste going on day after day which go to make up multiples of the 50 million wasted on this occasion.

 

[Natchessmen]

Rainy,

I have to agree, this is a throw-back to the Victorian Patronage system, where it was acceptable to run a sweatshop, mine or mill so long as you made some ostentatious contributions they'd name a road after you. I'm not convinced that more tax is necessarily the answer (but accept it may be) The department of Health's budget has increased significantly over the last decade and the service has improved, but sadly not to the same degree.

wrt to e-voting, assuming it is correctly validated and operational will it not save a sack-full of money in avoiding (double) paying folks to count the votes. Any vote counters out there? What is the rate of pay? For how long? And what would you otherwise be doing? are you getting paid anyway for your day job?

 

[rainyday]

wrt to e-voting, assuming it is correctly validated and operational will it not save a sack-full of money in avoiding (double) paying folks to count the votes.

Don't want to drag thread off topic, but NO - the proposed eVoting system would NOT have saved man-power. Each voting machine requires a dedicated 'control operator' to sit beside the machine and enable it for each voter. 7,000 machines = 7,000 man-days. My estimate of 42 count centres x 50 counters x 2 days average comes to 4200 man-days. So the new, expensive system requires MORE man-power to run than the old system.

 

[Natchessmen]

Fair enough. completely mad but I accept what you are saying now back the the programme.

 

[rainyday]

Yep - back to the main topic. The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get. [Isn't David Harvey (he of Crimeline fame) a fairly prominent FF member/supporter? I seem to recall him having a key role in running their Ard Fheis some time back]

The latest [broken link removed] is very light on detail about how the trust works, how many people are employed, what the admin costs are. It is slightly worrying that while the annual report claims that "grants are available for capital purposes only rather than the normal running costs of organisations", their [broken link removed] states "The Tallaght Travellers' Youth Service in Dublin received a grant from People in Need in 2000 that was used to help with the running costs of a homework club in the Traveller Centre in Ballycragh halting site" - makes it hard to really trust these people.

The point about 'we don't get value from public services' (whether you agree with it or not) is not relevant here. Many of the services being supported here also get state/health board funding, so there is no reason to think that we are getting better value from People in Need funding.

And the €8m raised in the last telethon is just a drop in the ocean in terms of what is required to bring our very basic services to the most needy in our society up to scratch.

This makes me mad. :mad

 

[Bridget]

charities allow govt. to get away with it

totally in agreement here.

But what's the way around it, bar telling the politicos off when they call? Stop giving to charity altogether to force the govermants hand?

It's like the 'voluntary contribution' to schools. The middle-class are schools get more and more, while the schools in the poorer areas get more and more rund down. totally unfair.

 

[rainyday]

Re: charities allow govt. to get away with it

But what's the way around it, bar telling the politicos off when they call?

Vote for change. And I'm not just banging my Labour drum here. I'd rather see people voting PD's to privatise all hospitals (if that what they think will solve our health service problems), instead of throwing 20 euro in a bucket to salve their conscience.

 

[daltonr]

Re: charities allow govt. to get away with it

Rainyday,

I mean this sincerely, I hope Labour get in at the next general election. I'll vote for them, and I'll give them a few years and then I'm coming on here to point out that we didn't get the change we voted for. I know now we won't get that change.

Labour have been in government before. You're old enough to remember. We had Telethon's back then too. We had bad value for public money, we had underfunded health services, and education, etc, etc, etc.

I've gotten off the Political Merry Go Round, I've realised I wasted my time by getting involved with FF and I wasted years inside it trying to achieve something.

Labour will get in, and then they'll engage in all the chicanery they can to stay in, and doing some good will play second fiddle as it always does. At what point will you join me on the solid ground of reality?

-Rd

 

[rainyday]

Re: charities allow govt. to get away with it

Hi RD - I'm not claiming to have a magic wand to wipe away these issues with one fell swoop. I'm not saying it would be easy.

However, remember that Labour have only been in Govt as a minority partner, which clearly restricts their scope, power & authority. All Governments in yours & my lifetime have been led by FF or FG. My core point is that if people are REALLY concerned about the health service, they should NOT be throwing 20 euro in a People in Need bucket, they should be voting DIFFERENTLY TO THE WAY THEY VOTED LAST TIME to bring about some true institutional change.

So have you anything positive to suggest?

 

[daltonr]

Re: charities allow govt. to get away with it

So have you anything positive to suggest?

Absolutely. If you see a problem, put your effort into fixing it, not into getting people elected. If all the foot soldiers that are littering our country with posters and leaflets were out volunteering with charities and community groups or handing out blankets and food, or even picking up litter instead of spreading it the country would be transformed almost overnight.

At least the people who volunteered for People in Need, and those who do other volunteer work are doing something useful. Succesive governments have been derelict in their duties, and rather than waste time trying to elect a different set of wasters, they've decided to deal with the problems of the country themselves. I salute them for that.

If you live in Dublin and care about homelesness, don't waste your time voting for people who say they care about the issue. Just deal with the issue.

Go out the next night it rains, find a homeless person, there's pleanty of them, and book them into a B&B. Just do it once a year, perhaps on your birthday. It was my Birthday last week and I'll be doing this the next night it rains.

A while back I saw a guy sleeping in literally a flowing torrent of water just off Grafton St. He didn't have time for elected Ireland to decide that he was more important than Equestrian Centers and Light Rail. He needed help there and then. McDonalds and a B&B was the best I could do for him. I found out months later from another guy on the street that he was after going down hill a lot. I've not been able to find him since.

Alternatively volunteer with some of the groups that actually assist people who really need help. Yes donate some money next time a hospital or school runs a fund raiser, or better still organise a fund raiser yourself. If you find it easier to donate time than money then that's useful too.

I'm not going to stop voting. But I have stopped believing that voting will help people. I've switched my efforts to volunteer and advocacy groups, rather than political parties.

My core point is that if people are REALLY concerned about the health service, they should NOT be throwing 20 euro in a People in Need bucket, they should be voting DIFFERENTLY TO THE WAY THEY VOTED LAST TIME to bring about some true institutional change.

I'm sorry but I disagree. This government can't be accused of not spending enough on Health. Electing this government radically changed the amount being spent on health and things have improved somewhat, but if FG or Labour had been in power they would have done the same, no better, possibly a little worse. Who's in power makes negligable difference.

Are Labour still touting compulsory Health Insurance?, if so, then they lose my vote when it comes to health.

If you see wrong, fix it, don't waste your energy electing someone else in the hopes that they might fix it.

If you have energy to spare give it to charitable organisations, not political parties.

I couldn't live with the shame if I devoted my effort to hanging up posters and handing out leaflets that people throw away without reading. Think of the good I could have been doing!!!!

Is that positive enough?

For the record I did once organize a fundraiser for a currently sitting TD, and despite being in FF I still think he's a good guy. He got bitch-slapped by Bertie for bad mouthing the party, so he must be doing something right.

-Rd

 

[Bridget]

homelessness

I'm sorry RD, I think that is the American way - rely on people to volunteer. But at least they do have a healthy tradition of volunteering. Homelessness is not going to be solved by booking someone sleeping rough into a B&B once a year, no matter how much better it makes you feel.

Problems like health system, education, homelessness need a systemic approach - and only the government can provice that.

I begin to think that one of the problems with Ireland is that we only ever seem to look to the US or the UK for their experience or solutions. Why not look at Germany (compulsory health insurance seems to work there), or Scandanavia, or Kerala, or anywhere else?

 

[XXXAnother PersonXXX]

.

Homelessness is not going to be solved by booking someone sleeping rough into a B&B once a year, no matter how much better it makes you feel.

If everyone did this, of course it would solve homelessness. Do the maths. Even if there were 1000 homeless people, you'd only need 365000 people booking them into B&Bs per year to solve the homeless problem.

Every bit helps.

 

[rainyday]

Re: .

Volunteering treats the symptoms, not the cause of the disease.

 

[daltonr]

Re: .

Rainyday

Volunteering treats the symptoms, not the cause of the disease.<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>

I'm sure you're aware of pleanty of diseases for which we have no cure. The best we can do is treat the sumptoms until a cure is discovered.

A Labour led government is the Irish Economy equivalent of a cure to Aids or Cancer. Years away if it will ever happen.
I'll devote myself to treating the symptoms, you work on the cure, and at the end of our lives we'll see who did most good.

If we get another 50 years out of you that's about 25 elections of one sort or another, if you devote 5 weeks to canvassing, postering etc for each that's about 2-3 years of effort devoted to getting labour to lead a government.

You can treat a lot of symptoms with that much effort, and that's just one party activist.

Bridget,

America is democracy taken to a bad extreme. With a democracy that corrupt and that influenced by money, there is no choice but for volunteers to take up the slack. THe real shame about America is that Government has gone a step further and said, it's ok with being derelict in it's duty, and let the volunteers take responsibility. It's a shame.

Here in Ireland the Parties are not yet making deriliction of their duty a strategy. But give it time. Judging by the current government's problem with the word "rights" when dealing with the disabled, it appears it's already unofficial policy.

Democracy is a great way to achieve and protect fundamental freedoms, but it's a hopeless way to protect the poorest in society and ensure social justice. Inevitably in a democracy the political parties eye is first and foremost on those that vote and those that contribute to the p

<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

 

[Bridget]

homelessness & B&Bs

XXXAnotherPersonXXX,
from the Focus Ireland website ([broken link removed]
____________________________________________________
There are currently 48,413 households on the housing waiting lists nationally and 5,581 people who are homeless. (According to the Housing Act definition)
_____________________________

This means you'd need 5581 X 365 = 2,037,065 people celebrating their birthdays by putting one person into a B&B. Personally, if I were homeless, I wuldn't be too impressed , even if I did manage to hang around the streets and find a birthday person each day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, Focus Ireland includes three categories in their definition of homeless (O'Sullivan, 1996):

*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Visible Homeless: those sleeping rough and/or those accommodated in emergency shelters or Bed and Breakfasts

*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Hidden Homeless: those families or individuals involuntarily sharing with family and friends, those in insecure accommodation or those living in housing that is woefully inadequate or sub-standard

*&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp At risk of Homelessness: those who currently have housing but are likely to become homeless due to economic difficulties, too high a rent burden, insecure tenure or health difficulties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So me and my 2 kids are staying with my mother, along with my two brothers and their wives and kids and it's only a small house and we're all being driven nuts, but none of us can afford a house, and the council waiting list is too long, my husband is a junkie/drunk/irresponsible git and contributes nothing. So a night's holiday in a B&B is going to be a great solution. Yeah right.

The only solution is to BUILD LOTS MORE HOUSES!!! Build low rise estates, make them affordable, good social mix, provide community facilities and transport, and bob's your uncle. Can't understand why the government doesn't do this. Could it be too simple? (or are they waiting for us all to start emigrating again?....I do wonder.....)

 

[Max Hopper]

Bridget, I resent your assertion that my tax monies should give you a home. I cannot afford one at the moment, so why should I pay for yours before I pay for mine?

 

[Max Hopper]

From our Labourite contributor, rainyday -

-----------------------​

"Charity begins at home, not with a home."<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> -Mam

 

[daltonr]

My suggesting was not an attempt at a comprehensive plan to tackle homelessness.

BUT... by doing something for even that one person I did more good than spending 5 weeks hanging up posters and littering the country with leaflets that noone reads.
(In my opinion, others are entitled to theirs).

I didn't say that it would solve the problem. I just that people who volunteer and actually do something are doing more good than the people who work to get their party elected in the vain hope that their party can solve these issues.

Rainyday has admitted that Labour as the Junior party is not going to cut the mustard, apparently they need to lead the government. And if they fail then? what will the excuse be?? They need an overall majority perhaps????

It's bunkum. THe best government of the last 30 years was good because it HAD TO BE. It was a FF government and it didn't even have a majority. When you remove choice your remove governments ability to screw up. And you get good government.

So a night's holiday in a B&B is going to be a great solution. Yeah right.

If you're sleeping on the street and you're wet and cold, you don't have a long term plan, you only care about tonight. So, someone checking you into a B&B, or giving you money for a hostel actually is solving your problem.

And it's no holiday. You sarcasm is worrying, but it's probably typical, and you're just the kind of person the political parties pander to to get votes.

-Rd

 

[Bridget]

good grief

--------------
Bridget, I resent your assertion that my tax monies should give you a home. I cannot afford one at the moment, so why should I pay for yours before I pay for mine?
--------------

If there was a building programme for the whole population of Ireland, houses would be a lot cheaper to buy (demand & supply - though of course mansions in Dalkey would always command a premium); and those who can't/won't buy could rent them at fairly reasonable rates. I don't think the Corpo rents are peppercorn.

I don't own a home yet either.....have been saving for years, but prices increase faster than my income! :mad