Rejected purely on switching frequency

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Lightbulb

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Hi all,

PTSB's credit team just rejected my switch request solely on the basis that I have switched too frequently in the past 5 years (quite a few times). Their mortgage team accepted my application as I had been with my previous provider for over 12 months but was told today that the credit team weren't happy to take the risk of me switching away after receipt of the cashback (all others factors were ok). Given their rates, I applied for a variable rate but was told they wouldn't take me even if I fixed.

Any ideas if this is within their remit or is there any point making a complaint? It was a waste of time gathering all the documents.

Thanks
 
No. They have no right to refuse you.

After all, you have a right to be granted a mortgage by any lender you choose. It is not up to them to pick and choose whom they lend to! What sort of a crazy right wing idea is that?

The state owns 75% of permanent tsb. They have an obligation to serve the people. We bailed them out. They must give you a mortgage and they must give you 2% cash back. And they must make it as easy as possible for you to move again to another lender and then back to them.

Not only should you complain. But perhaps take an action for defamation?

Brendan
 
I think a lot of the banks won't let you switch without a minimum of 12 months with your previous provider and EBS will only allow cashback once, still I did meet the 12 month requirement and answered all questions in the application honestly. They called today to say that I was refused purely on the multiple switching point.

Their variable rate when including the 2% cash bonus that you receive each month isn't bad so I would have stuck with them for a period of time.

I just don't really understand what their T&Cs are on this matter.
 
They operate on a commercial basis with the aim of making money. They assess each application on the basis of this. We're use to banks making an assessment on us going into arrears/defaulting why not on a quick switch also. It would be a net cost to the lender.

If I were a lender, an AAM member would be the last person I would lend to... Especially me :p
 
Lightbulb said:
I just don't really understand what their T&Cs are on this matter.
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Their T&Cs are of no relevance until you enter into the mortgage contract with them.

Up until that point, they’re free to decide who to lend to or not.
 
skrooge said:
They operate on a commercial basis with the aim of making money. They assess each application on the basis of this. We're use to banks making an assessment on us going into arrears/defaulting why not on a quick switch also. It would be a net cost to the lender.

If I were a lender, an AAM member would be the last person I would lend to... Especially me :p
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Shouldn’t all AAM members be entitled too at least a 2% discount on any rates applied too them
 
Dont think fspo will be interested either as theyll probably say that they dont intervene in commercial decisions.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
No. They have no right to refuse you.

After all, you have a right to be granted a mortgage by any lender you choose. It is not up to them to pick and choose whom they lend to! What sort of a crazy right wing idea is that?

The state owns 75% of permanent tsb. They have an obligation to serve the people. We bailed them out. They must give you a mortgage and they must give you 2% cash back. And they must make it as easy as possible for you to move again to another lender and then back to them.

Not only should you complain. But perhaps take an action for defamation?

Brendan
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Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Obviously a bank is a commercial entity but their switching conditions aren't at all transparent. Given the regulatory drive to promote the ease of switching I wasnt sure if they could refuse on the grounds of too many switches.

Brendan - on what basis do you think a compliant should be lodged? Focus on the lack of transparency of their switching conditions? I might just ask for their reasoning in writing first, what do you think?
 
I don't know where to start...

Check out the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That is always a good place to start.

It's a while since I read it, but surely it obliges a licensed bank to lend to anyone who has successfully borrowed before.

There is also the Equal Status Act. It specificially prohibits discrimination on the grounds of gender, marital status, family status, age disability, sexual orientation, race, religion, membership of the Traveller community and previous switching history.

The Consumer Protection Code is full of stuff you could quote. The lender must act in the best interests of the customer. Surely it's in your best interest to pay you €8,000 to take out a mortgage with them, watch you switch to another lender and take you back again later?
 
Scarcasm is the lowest form of wit Brendan. To be fair, the OP just asked if this was permitted. He's gathered up all the documentation, met the criteria and been given no indication his past switching was an issue. Should the same consequences be applied to people who switch utility providers, car insurers, phone providers etc.

OP, unfortunately, I'd say you have to chalk that down to experience. I don't know how many times you have switched, but perhaps try a broker and see what their thoughts are and who you could switch to going forward?
 
Lightbulb said:
Hi all,

PTSB's credit team just rejected my switch request solely on the basis that I have switched too frequently in the past 5 years (quite a few times). Their mortgage team accepted my application as I had been with my previous provider for over 12 months but was told today that the credit team weren't happy to take the risk of me switching away after receipt of the cashback (all others factors were ok). Given their rates, I applied for a variable rate but was told they wouldn't take me even if I fixed.

Any ideas if this is within their remit or is there any point making a complaint? It was a waste of time gathering all the documents.

Thanks
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Let me get this straight. You want PTSB to spend time underwriting your mortgage application, give you 2% cashback and then you are going to move your mortgage again. So they don't make any money on the loan and are out of pocket. And then complain about it being a waste of your time?

If you are going to play the switching game, you have to factor in the risk that a bank will reject you for being a serial switcher. :D
 
Lightbulb said:
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Obviously a bank is a commercial entity but their switching conditions aren't at all transparent. Given the regulatory drive to promote the ease of switching I wasnt sure if they could refuse on the grounds of too many switches.

Brendan - on what basis do you think a compliant should be lodged? Focus on the lack of transparency of their switching conditions? I might just ask for their reasoning in writing first, what do you think?
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None of their terms, conditions or practices apply to you because you are not a customer and there is no law, nor will there be any law that will force them to do business with you, beyond the directive on basic banking services. Which part of that do you not understand?

You have got your first refusal and it is very likely that you will get more going forward as you are now seen as a time wasting loss maker and no one is interested in taking on such customers. Whether that will impact their decisions on the provision of other services remains to be seen.
 
Jim2007 said:
None of their terms, conditions or practices apply to you because you are not a customer and there is no law, nor will there be any law that will force them to do business with you, beyond the directive on basic banking services. Which part of that do you not understand?

You have got your first refusal and it is very likely that you will get more going forward as you are now seen as a time wasting loss maker and no one is interested in taking on such customers. Whether that will impact their decisions on the provision of other services remains to be seen.
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I imagine that there may be a code of conduct for financial service providers, which may include treating people fairly and transparently. But if it does in fact exist, it would be surprising if it has been breached.
 
Lightbulb said:
I just don't really understand what their T&Cs are on this matter.
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The only term that really matters here is the standard 'Lending criteria, terms & conditions will apply.' Their lending criteria are not published, but they allow them to pick and choose the business they want. So long as those criteria are non-discriminatory, there is no case to answer.
 
Are multiple switches between lenders much easier for the banks to identify now the that the Central Credit Register is up and running for a few years? Or was this visible with the old ICB approach too?
 
I think you are all being very harsh on Lightbulb. He is just a frequent swicther standing in front of a bank's underwriting committee asking them to give him cash back on the promise that he will stick around for awhile.....

Lightbulb, the bank obviously thinks you have committment issues. You dangle your business in front of them but then once the bank commits, your history shows you run away to the first floozy that bats their latest cashback offer at you.. You can't blame them for being cautious. They just don't want to be hurt.

I would suggest writing a letter telling the bank that you have changed. That those days of playing the field have gone and that you are looking to settle down. You might have to grovel a bit (maybe throw in a current account opening) but it will be worth it. Banks and especially those with cashback offers just want to feel loved. They don't want to feel that you are just using them for your own benefit. They want to feel special and that you care about them as much as they care about you.

Basically show them that you are not all about the cashback. That you are looking for the real thing now.

Best of luck anyway.
 
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