Our "World Class" education system

We all learned Irish for 10+ years and how many of us can speak it now! So I don't see why throwing another language into the mix without changing the system would lead to an outcome any different.
I learnt Irish for 14 years, French and German for 6 years; left school 25+ years ago but you could abandon me in deepest France or Germany and I could communicate my way out whereas I honestly don't think I could hold any kind of converstaion in Irish. I don't know whether it's because it's compulsory or because of the way it's taught or maybe it's just a way harder language but children seem to take to other languages much more easily than Irish. I would much prefer to see children learn French/German/Spanish as a core subject and learn Irish as part of an 'Irish culture and language' subject.
 
I learnt Irish for 14 years, French and German for 6 years; left school 25+ years ago but you could abandon me in deepest France or Germany and I could communicate my way out whereas I honestly don't think I could hold any kind of converstaion in Irish. I don't know whether it's because it's compulsory or because of the way it's taught or maybe it's just a way harder language but children seem to take to other languages much more easily than Irish. I would much prefer to see children learn French/German/Spanish as a core subject and learn Irish as part of an 'Irish culture and language' subject.

Slightly off-topic, but is that because since leaving school 25+ years you have kept up an interest in both French and german wheras you have no interest in Irish and therefore have 'isolated' yourself from it over a similar period?

My German would be a lot better than my Irish (I left school around 16/17 years ago) but I did it in college, worked there in summers and have generally kept it up. My comprehension of written Irish is still OK and I can understand Nuacht reasonably well, but having never really had a 'normal' conversation in irish I have virtually zero ability in spoken Irish.

Almost all people I know repeat the mantra of 14 years of Irish and I can't speak a word but virtually all of those same people can't hold a conversation in whatever other language they did in school either. The only ones who can are those who have kept it up in some form - watching euronews back in the 90s / buying newspapers in easons / holidays or these days watching TV through the internet.

This subtle idea that's sometimes floated that we're a nation of linguists being held back by Irish is stretching it to me.
 
Slightly off-topic, but is that because since leaving school 25+ years you have kept up an interest in both French and german wheras you have no interest in Irish and therefore have 'isolated' yourself from it over a similar period?...
Almost all people I know repeat the mantra of 14 years of Irish and I can't speak a word but virtually all of those same people can't hold a conversation in whatever other language they did in school either. ...
This subtle idea that's sometimes floated that we're a nation of linguists being held back by Irish is stretching it to me.
If anything, I've had more exposure to Irish in seeing 3 children through school and attempting to help with homework. Helping them with secondary school French, all the grammar etc. came flooding back whereas looking at Irish grammar is like looking into a black hole. My Irish was always way weaker - I just never clicked with the way it was taught.

I do agree with you though - it's not Irish that's holding back other languages - I think languages are generally unpopular with kids because they are seen as 'hard' and requiring effort.
 
Slightly off-topic, but is that because since leaving school 25+ years you have kept up an interest in both French and german wheras you have no interest in Irish and therefore have 'isolated' yourself from it over a similar period?

My experience is similar, loved French at secondary school and hated Irish. I attribute my attitude to specific teachers. In 4th year we had a dour individual teaching us Irish who spent a whole year getting is to transcribe grammar off the blackboard. He was, AFAIK, from Galway. Going home and seeking help with homework from a father with Kerry Irish and and a mother with Donegal Irish just added to the frustration.

In contrast, the French teacher had a more lively personality and encouraged us to speak the language.

The outcome was a B honour in French in the Leaving Cert and a D pass in Irish (Ordinary level).
 
ok I am confused ,purples quote "our graduates were not fit for purpose. Our tradespeople are well below the standards of their mainland European counterparts. We rank amongst the worst in the OECD for foreign language fluency" .
the press briefings that the multinationals the ida are currently bringing in to the country are all saying how great we are at the above or is it really something else that's bringing them in (grants tax relief etc)?
 
ok I am confused ,purples quote "our graduates were not fit for purpose. Our tradespeople are well below the standards of their mainland European counterparts. We rank amongst the worst in the OECD for foreign language fluency" .
the press briefings that the multinationals the ida are currently bringing in to the country are all saying how great we are at the above or is it really something else that's bringing them in (grants tax relief etc)?

Our collective fluency in English, and our membership of the Eurozone, are key factors in our favour.
 
Our collective fluency in English, and our membership of the Eurozone, are key factors in our favour.
and don't forget about our low corporation tax.......although I wonder how much longer we will have that card to play....
 
Our collective fluency in English, and our membership of the Eurozone, are key factors in our favour.

Don't forget the Double Irish


ok I am confused ,purples quote "our graduates were not fit for purpose. Our tradespeople are well below the standards of their mainland European counterparts. We rank amongst the worst in the OECD for foreign language fluency" .
the press briefings that the multinationals the ida are currently bringing in to the country are all saying how great we are at the above or is it really something else that's bringing them in (grants tax relief etc)?
They are hardly going to say they are coming here because of our tax rates. Therefore they need the fig leaf of just how wonderful we are. Don't get me wrong; we have a lot to offer but so do lots of other countries. Why do we get more US inward investment than most of Asia combined?
 
Any education system that spends more time on religious studies than science or maths has serious issues.


I couldn't believe it when I heard that religion is now a subject in the junior certificate. When I was in school, religion class was for doing your real homework from other teachers!
 
The Foreign language issue is probably a much bigger one than we currently credit. Look at the jobs in the tech industry, of which there are hundreds, and as we've sold ourselves as the EMEA base for these companies, they require fluency in second languages. Those posts go unfilled and labour has to be imported.

It's an essential second skill and should be seen as such.

I do wonder if we expect too much of the state in terms of education. While there are issues as parents why do we delegate the whole education of our kids to the state, if we're that interested we should be involved.

If the state school system is weak on science in the primary years, then fill that gap as a parent. My niece and nephew were always more science focussed as children, so we came up with experiments to do suitable for children and at home (bottle rockets, etc).

It seems that parents have high hopes for their children and apply much more pressure on them being graduates, but want the state to do the work for their child (as well as every other child in the state). Of course, the parents pat themselves on the back as to how great and supportive they are for paying for grinds.

There is no solution to this from a state level, it can't be all things to all children. The state can provide a standard level of education and while that might have weaknesses, how much of the responsibility for the failure in those areas lies with the parents?

Parents have too big a focus on results without wanting to play their part in the education of their children. To me that's where the problem lies, not the state education system.
 
Because Asia doesn't offer access to the EU which is more important to American companies than any other market. Add in similar culture, Native English speakers, decent time differences, a Government that would bend over backwards for investment, politically and sociably stable etc etc.

Of course tax is an important issue but a company like Intel won't build a multi billion euro manufacturing facility here instead of Israel because of a 12.5% tax rate. It will come down to the whole package.
 
Of course tax is an important issue but a company like Intel won't build a multi billion euro manufacturing facility here instead of Israel because of a 12.5% tax rate. It will come down to the whole package.

Does anyone really think Intel pays 12.5% tax here?
 
Does anyone really think Intel pays 12.5% tax here?

Does anyone really think any company pays the headline tax rate anywhere in the world? Ireland is no different. The gap between Ireland's headline rate and effective rate is a lot smaller than other countries. Look at the effective corporate tax rate in France.
 
Does anyone really think any company pays the headline tax rate anywhere in the world? Ireland is no different. The gap between Ireland's headline rate and effective rate is a lot smaller than other countries. Look at the effective corporate tax rate in France.

I agree; the CAC top 50 have an effective tax rate of less than 10%. The problem is that using the Apple model companies can pay almost no tax here.
 
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