New pharmacy rules restricting sale of codeine products

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truthseeker

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I dont get it - I agree the sale of these products should be restricted (I know a number of people whose use of Solphadeine is just crazy).

But all thats happening is a Q&A session/lecture in the pharmacy, no one details are recorded and the assessment made by whoever is behind the counter is subjective at best.

So whats to stop me going to 10 different pharmacies, having the Q&A/lecture in all of them - but still gaining access to loads of Solphadeine?

Its a bit half measured - why not just make codeine products prescription only?
 
truthseeker said:
Its a bit half measured - why not just make codeine products prescription only?
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Considering our general eagerness to "get in line" with the rest of Europe, it's a bit strange. Try buying codeine in a pharmacy in Spain, France etc and they'll look at you like you're some sort of junkie!
 
The more drugs that are on prescription the more it cost us for doctor fees; I suspect that this is what it is all about. Years ago they stopped the sale of aspirin in large quantities, then it was Parectamol, we were only allowed one packet; this was supposedly to stop people committing suicide, but as the previous post said, yyou could go to more than one chemist shop.
I occationally rely on Solpadine/Syndol for Migraine , I also find that a bottle of Codeine is the only thing that cures a cough in winter, but I am no way addicted. We are already paying over the top for drugs in this country.
 
What gets me is that its such a half measure - either sell me the medicine or dont, but stop questioning me like Im an imbecile when I try to buy them. I dont particularly want to discuss my period pains (or any other pains for that matter) at a public counter with any number of my neighbours standing round listening in.

It also seems to me to be a bit of a farce when you look at the numbers of alcoholics staggering round the country yet no one is challenging their usage when they go buy a bottle of spirits a day in the off licence - ditto smoking.
 
I was in a local chemist at the weekend waiting to pay for an item and had to listen to the pharmacist question a fella about why he wanted the solpadeine. He had to list out all the meds he was currently on, which included Prothiaden (an antidepressant). I tried to move away as much as possible without being obvious but I felt very embarrassed for the young guy and was a bit mortified myself that I couldn't extricate myself easily from the situation. Surely there is a better way to do this? These kind of situations need more privacy.
 
I think these products should be prescription only. The inappropriate use of Solpadeine and other products containing codeine is staggering. These new regulations are a joke as there's nothing to stop someone going to 10 different chemists.

I was waiting on a prescription a few weeks ago and at least 10 consecutive people came in to buy solpadeine. When I remarked on this the assistant said that it's a huge issue
 
Nobody should have to stand at a busy Pharmacy counter and be questioned in public on their drug taking habits. By law, all pharmacies must have a customer consultation area where they can talk in private - this is part of the condition of having a GMS contract. I would refuse to answer any questions unless they can provide this.
As regards Solpadeine and other meds containing Codeine - frankly, something had to be done. Loads of people are addicted to Codeine and it is not being used properly. It will make people more aware of the dangers, and it will also educate the customer on a more suitable painkiller. It will be interesting to see if this will slow the sale of Codeine- Containing products.
 
You could make Codeine a prescription drug but do you really want a case where people have to go to a doctor to get a prescription for panadol? GP's are under enough pressure as it is.
I think having it as a behind the counter drug is the only way. Not a perfect solution though
 
Sunny said:
You could make Codeine a prescription drug but do you really want a case where people have to go to a doctor to get a prescription for panadol? GP's are under enough pressure as it is.
I think having it as a behind the counter drug is the only way. Not a perfect solution though
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Just to clarify - Panadol/Paracetamol is not in the same category as Codeine - as regards addiction potential.
 
FYI - I'd scanned this thread quickly yesterday. This morning at about 7.45am I heard Ian Dempsey talk about online debate re the new regulations for Codeine - he took several quotes all of which seemed to be directly from this thread!
 
ophelia said:
Just to clarify - Panadol/Paracetamol is not in the same category as Codeine - as regards addiction potential.
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Isn't paracetamol abuse one of the biggest causes of liver failure and accounts for the majority of drug overdose deaths in many countries. Also codeine is often used in combination with other ingredients so if you were to make codeine itself a prescription drug, you would need to go the doctor to buy panadol extra. (open to correction on this)
 
Sunny said:
Isn't paracetamol abuse one of the biggest causes of liver failure and accounts for the majority of drug overdose deaths in many countries. Also codeine is often used in combination with other ingredients so if you were to make codeine itself a prescription drug, you would need to go the doctor to buy panadol extra. (open to correction on this)
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Panadol is paracetamol. I assume Panadol extra is paracetamol with a bit of codiene added.

Paracetamol is not addictive, but it is easy to overdose and is so easy to get and use that it is a cause of accidental liver damage. Plenty of people dont know that there is LOADS of paracetamol in Lemsip, so take it and Panadol for a cold. Therefore, it can only be sold in blister packs of 12 or 24 to avoid accidental overdoses and to restrict easy access to those who might attempt suicide using it. Supermarkets can only sell one product to you. Pharmacists can if they are sure you understand what you are buying.

Codiene is addictive - The restrictions on it sale are to make it more difficult for people to buy lots and to make them aware that it is a serious and potentially dangerous drug. If it were prescription, then the use of panadol extra / solpodiene etc would wither and die and a lot of the sales of this are to people who dont really need it, or have an addiction.

If you get a mild headache everyday and solpadiene is the only thing that works, chances are that the headache is caused by codiene withdrawal.

I do agree that the current rules will not stop does who are overusing codiene , it makes it more inconvenient but people who want drugs badly enough will put up with a bit of inconvenience. Harder on those in small
villages and towns with access to only one pharmacy.
 
I went into Boots to buy Solpadeine for my wife who had bad period pains over the weekend.
I asked the assistant for a pack and got the 'Do you know the restrictions?' spiel. Told her, 'yes, I know that codeine is an opiate, and is addictive, but can I have them please?'.
She went to the pharmacist (who was speaking to a colleague 10ft away) and spoke to her and then came back and said that my wife would have to come in and speak to the pharmacist herself.
I asked her if it was it illegal for me to buy Solpadeine and was told that it was 'their policy' as they were for my wife, and not me. I said they were for her 'now' but if I needed a painkiller, I would also be using them.
I was still refused.
By that point I was quite angry. I felt like I was a junkie, trying to persuade the chemist to give me a fix of Methadone before I was due to receive one, and basically told them to stuff it if they didn't want to sell them, I'd buy them elsewhere.

Afterwards, I was livid when I thought about it and am now thinking about emailing Boots Head Office to find out about any policies they have on the sale of Solpadeine, outside of that imposed by law. I'll not be returning to that store, except to have a word with the chemist in person.

btw, I got the Methadone....sorry, Solpadeine, from another private chemist. I told them the same story, and that I knew about the dangers of Codeine addiction etc.
No problem.
 
roker said:
... I also find that a bottle of Codeine is the only thing that cures a cough in winter, ...
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Codeine (or a related drug) does not cure a cough. The drugs merely act at a symptomatic level as cough suppressants.
truthseeker said:
... It also seems to me to be a bit of a farce when you look at the numbers of alcoholics staggering round the country yet no one is challenging their usage when they go buy a bottle of spirits a day in the off licence - ditto smoking.
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That's an invalid comparison IMHO. Alcohol and tobacco are not health-care products / medicines and the guidelines for sale / supply of them are not the remit of the pharmacists or the .
 
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the full guidance document and responses received to the draft guidance are available as downloadable PDFs at the bottom of the page above.
 
mathepac said:
That's an invalid comparison IMHO. Alcohol and tobacco are not health-care products / medicines and the guidelines for sale / supply of them are not the remit of the pharmacists or the .
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I was using the comparison purely for the purposes of something someone can become addicted to (like codeine) - and also because prior the current guidelines some people were using codeine containing products recreationally and not for medicinal purposes - allegedly.

It seems to me to be a bit of a random event on whether or not one can buy these products easily now, I was subjected to a full scale public interrogation for some syndol for a muscle strain, but a few weeks later was handed over a packet of solphadeine for my father in law with no questions asked at all. Seems to depend on the chemist tbh.

Pique318 - Ive personally found that small local single branch chemists are far more likely to sell the stuff to you than large multi branchs - perhaps because the small local depends on regular customers to stay alive, whereas the larger chains in shopping centres get more irregular footfall.
 
I went to buy Neurofen + for my husband who threw out his back a few weeks ago. It's an old injury and goes to physio but couldn't get an appointment for a few days on this one occasion.

The pharmacist came out from behind the screen and started questioning me about intended use and I explained it to him. He spent about 5 minutes explaining how codeine is addictive and another 5 minutes trying to flog me regular Neurofen and Deep Heat spray. I was starting to lose my patience and told him that my husband is at home in excrutiating pain, 'minding' a lively infant he can't even pick up and I had no intention of buying anything other than I was asked to get as I didn't fancy being sent back. Eventually I got it but it was hard work.
 
Taking codine products as directed is fine. I don't see why yet again, a small few who can't follow simple instructions mean the rest of the population are nannied.

Of course the media loved the "addictive after 3 days", but that was pure bull anyway. They based that on the manufacturers statement to not take for more than three days. The reason wasn't because you become addicted, the reason was that this medication is only for minor, temporary ailments, if you've a headache lasting more than 3 days you should see a doctor anyway, not self-prescribe for weeks and months.

You do not get a codine or opiate "buzz" based upon the recommended dose, you only get that if you take in excess of the recommendation.

So thanks to all this, because I can't take any ibuprofen, my early autumn need for solpadeine as the only painkiller that works on my dodgy shoulder that flairs up this time every year for a week is now the subject of practically an internal examination.

Even though I've been going the same pharmacist for years. Even though she knows why I need the solpadeine, what it's for and that it's only 5 days, I have to go through this cross examination.
 
Latrade said:
I don't see why yet again, a small few who can't follow simple instructions mean the rest of the population are nannied.
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Id like to see proper statistics on this. I read one article (that I cant find now) that gave the figure of codeine addicts as something like 84.

Im not too clear on why we are being nannied over 84 eejits who like to pop the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX too often.

Not only that - but in some places you cannot get the medication even if you have the symtoms its recommended for! I was in the medicine section of a Boots recently and I overheard a lady asking for Solpadeine for her period pains (yes I heard the entire consultation, no privacy at all). After an interrogation where she was offered other products that she claimed she had tried before and that they did not work for her - she was refused the solpadeine and left empty handed.

Now the last time I read the back of a packet of solpadeine it stated it was for use for period pains. So this person actually had the symptoms the stuff is designed for yet wasnt allowed to buy it!
 
There's a board that I read sometimes, for Irish mothers, magicmum.com.
There are a couple of threads on there about solpadeine, and they make for frightening reading - some of the posters, and their relatives, who have 'mild' codeine addictions, going through several packets each week.

I don't agree with how the restrictions work either, I often take Nurofen+ for a shoulder problem (physiotherapist advised it to reduce inflammation) but I think the problem is actually more widespread than most people realise.
 
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