My letter to the Central Bank on vulture funds

Brendan Burgess

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I have today, sent the attached letter to Governor Mahklouf

Dear Governor

I have read your reply to Pearse Doherty's question about vulture funds and the figures in it are wrong.

The most serious error is the implication that up to 54,000 could switch when the correct number is an absolute maximum of 1,000.

Furthermore, it fails to explain why neither the Central Bank nor the government will take any action to protect the 34,000 customers of vulture funds who are paying egregiously high mortgage rates who cannot switch.

It demonstrates that the Central Bank does not have an understanding of the issues involved.

As it is urgent that you correct the errors and to expedite matters, I have suggested a draft response to Deputy Doherty.

As always, I am free to meet you and your staff if they want to get a fuller understanding of the issue.

Brendan
 
Draft revised letter from Governor Makhlouf to Deputy Pearse Doherty

Drafted by Brendan Burgess for Governor Makhlouf


Dear Deputy Doherty

I have reviewed the letter we sent to you on 4th July and the reaction of the media and the Minister for Finance to it, and on reflection, I realise that it contained a number of wrong figures, that it was confusing and that it failed to deal with the real issue.

For example:

  • I referred to mortgage borrowers on occasions when I should have said mortgage accounts thus overstating the figures by 25%.
  • I lumped in non-bank lenders such as Avant and Haven (a subsidiary of AIB) with the vulture funds in a lot of the data.
  • I claimed that up to 54,000 customers of vulture funds could switch if only they would overcome their inertia.
  • I implied that the banks might be slow in accepting switches from customers of vulture funds who had a good credit record.
These are a distraction from the real issue which needs to be addressed: The 34,000 customers of vulture funds who are paying egregiously high mortgage rates and who can’t switch.

It was wrong to imply that up to 54,000 customers of vulture funds could and should switch to escape the egregious interest rates. In fact, there are no more than 1,000 mortgage holders who are paying these high rates who could switch from vulture funds.

The vulture funds have a total of 64,000 mortgage customers (80,0032 accounts).

18,000 of these have never been in arrears and could switch. But these are the former customers of Bank of Scotland Ireland and Danske Bank and are all on cheap trackers. They would lose their cheap trackers, so they should not switch.

21,000 are currently in arrears so they cannot switch.

14,000 are currently in restructures so they cannot switch.

That leaves 12,000 customers who have been in arrears or in restructures but are no longer in arrears or in restructures. 3,000 of these are on cheap trackers, so they should not switch.

That leaves 9,000 customers who are not in arrears or in restructures who are on egregiously high mortgage rates. However, when these apply to switch to a mainstream bank, the vast majority of them are turned down because they have an impaired credit record as they have been in arrears or restructured within the last 5 years. Mainstream banks will accept switches from these customers only in exceptional circumstances. In reality, no more than 10% or c. 1,000 of these customers would qualify as exceptional circumstances.

I am concerned that by publishing a figure of 54,000 who could switch we were blaming them for not bothering to switch and also blaming the mainstream banks for not having the resources to process applications from these customers who do apply to switch.

The blame lies solely with the vulture funds for charging these egregious rates and not with their victims and not with the mainstream banks.

The vulture funds argue that all they have done is to pass on the ECB rate increases of 4.25%. However, that misrepresents the situation. Irish banks maintained artificially high variable rates and competed for new business with much lower fixed rates. The vulture funds have added the ECB rate increases to the already artificially high variable rates and do not offer their customers fixed rates. The net result is that in May, the last month for which we have comparable information, vulture funds charged between 6.5% and 8.25% or around twice the rate being charged by mainstream banks in Ireland or in the euro area. As of August, the vulture funds are now charging rates up to 8.75%.

The effect of all this is that while a customer of a mainstream bank will be offered a new fixed rate of around 4.5% when their old fixed rate of 3% ends, a former customer of the same bank whose fixed rate of 3% is ending, could well go automatically onto a variable rate of 8.5% with no option to fix.

There are about 34,000 mortgage holders paying these egregious rates to the vulture funds who cannot switch.

You might well argue that the Consumer Protection Code imposes an obligation on the vultures to treat these customers fairly. The best way to treat these customers fairly would be for the vultures to offer their customers the same rates on offer from the banks who sold their mortgages.

However, we are not minded to interfere with the vultures in any way. The mortgage contract allows the vultures to charge whatever they like and as long as the vultures adhere to the contract, we will take no action.

The Minister for Finance, Michael McGrath, agrees with me that no action should be taken by the Central Bank or the government to help these mortgage prisoners.

I appreciate that when these mortgages were sold to the vultures, the Central Bank and the then Minister for Finance gave assurances that these customers would not lose out as a result of the sale. We were wrong and I am sorry for that. But how were we to know back then that the vultures would exercise their contractual rights to charge egregious interest rates?

Interestingly enough, my predecessor, Patrick Honohan, was alert to this possibility. He suggested to an Oireachtas Committee back in 2014 that if the vultures charged egregious rates, they should be reined in. But that is no longer our policy.

In the appendix, I deal with all these numbers and issues in more detail.



Yours sincerely
 

Attachments

  • Appendix to letter from Mahlouf to Doherty.docx
    46 KB · Views: 103
Well done Brendan. At surface level it seems the CB has decided to do nothing.

Based on your figures is it arguable (by the CB) that approx 33% (21,000) of account holders with trackers have opted to remain with fund to keep their tracker?
Though with the increases all being passed on, some may get a cheaper fixed with a mainstream lender (assuming credit history is OK).
 
I have today, sent the attached letter to Governor Mahklouf

Dear Governor

I have read your reply to Pearse Doherty's question about vulture funds and the figures in it are wrong.

The most serious error is the implication that up to 54,000 could switch when the correct number is an absolute maximum of 1,000.

Furthermore, it fails to explain why neither the Central Bank nor the government will take any action to protect the 34,000 customers of vulture funds who are paying egregiously high mortgage rates who cannot switch.

It demonstrates that the Central Bank does not have an understanding of the issues involved.

As it is urgent that you correct the errors and to expedite matters, I have suggested a draft response to Deputy Doherty.

As always, I am free to meet you and your staff if they want to get a fuller understanding of the issue.

Brendan
So to sum up:

- the central bank hasn't a clue
- the central bank is incompetent
- the central bank could not care less
- the central bank send out any kind of nonsense without checking facts
- the central bank doesn't know what they are talking about

And one man, with a financial background, unpaid, can do a better job of a reply to an elected official than any of the many highly paid financial experts in the Central Bank.

I actually suggest drastic action should be taken to the Governor but I don't want to be banned on here.

And I wonder how many other replies come from such state funded organisations.

It's hilarious you've offered to go and educate the governor and staff of the Central Bank of Ireland.

(and this is why we had the Celtic Tiger bubble and aftermath)
 
Surely when vultures got their loans to buy the portfolios off the banks they got the money on the cheap when intrest rates were near to nothing so there argument for passing on all the rate hikes doesn't make sense
 
I worry that if my performing mortgage had been transferred to a vulture fund (as part of a batch) I end up being stuck on higher and higher interest rates and ending up in arrears and therefore unable to switch. The interest rate goes higher again and I end up in a deeper and deeper hole. While my compatriots in a main stream bank are much better protected.

Are you saying Brendan that these are only a tiny portion of people with a mortgage with a vulture fund?
 
Based on your figures is it arguable (by the CB) that approx 33% (21,000) of account holders with trackers have opted to remain with fund to keep their tracker?
Though with the increases all being passed on, some may get a cheaper fixed with a mainstream lender (assuming credit history is OK).
@Luternau

The only performing mortgages which were sold were those of former customers of Danske and BoSI. These were almost all on cheap trackers. It is about 18,000 borrowers.

They could switch now and fix, but it wouldn't be worth their while. They might make a short term gain at the expense of losing their tracker.

If they had switched and fixed earlier in the year, before the mainstream banks raised their fixed rates, they would be better off. But that was not clear. If you look back at the discussion on askaboutmoney - there would be different opinions on whether that was the right thing to do or not.

Brendan
 
It's hilarious you've offered to go and educate the governor and staff of the Central Bank of Ireland.

I met the staff involved earlier in the year. I was surprised at their lack of appreciation of the issue e.g.
"The vulture funds are allowing people to fix their repayments". They didn't seem to fully appreciate that this was different from fixing the mortgage rate. I was a bit confused. They must have understood this so it's possible that they were taking a Devil's Advocate approach.

"The vulture funds are just passing on the rate increases". They did not appreciate how artificially high variable rates were in the first place.
 
Surely when vultures got their loans to buy the portfolios off the banks they got the money on the cheap when intrest rates were near to nothing so there argument for passing on all the rate hikes doesn't make sense

Actually the Governor of the Central Bank has argued the opposite.


Some key findings of the Central Bank’s analysis of interest rates in the non-bank sector are as follows:
• Generally, non-banks have a greater reliance on wholesale funding (often tied to
EURIBOR) than retail banks as they are not authorised to accept deposits. As such, the
pass through of rising interest rates is more strongly linked to their funding model and
tends to happen quicker.


If I take out a mortgage with ptsb I should not have to pay higher mortgage rates because they sold my mortgage to a vulture which has a different funding model.

But on the other hand, if the vulture buys my mortgage from ptsb at a discount because it's in arrears, I should not be charged a lower rate than I would otherwise be paying.
 
I worry that if my performing mortgage had been transferred to a vulture fund

Are you saying Brendan that these are only a tiny portion of people with a mortgage with a vulture fund?

The only performing mortgages which were sold were those of Danske and BoSI. And they were on trackers.

So you don't need to worry about BoI selling your performing non-tracker mortgage.

A handful of performing loans were sold by the other banks, but only because they were linked to buy to let mortgages, which were usually in arrears.

Of course, the big losers were the 6,000 ptsb customers who had restructured mortgages which the Central Bank classified as non-performing.

Brenan
 
The more relevant percentage is those who can’t switch.

This is the key table

1691653719853.png

29,000 are on trackers, so it doesn't matter if they can switch or not. They are not paying egregiously high rates, so they should not switch.

34,000 are paying egregiously high rates and can't switch.

Brendan
 
If I take out a mortgage with ptsb I should not have to pay higher mortgage rates because they sold my mortgage to a vulture which has a different funding model.

But on the other hand, if the vulture buys my mortgage from ptsb at a discount because it's in arrears, I should not be charged a lower rate than I would otherwise be paying.

But you should not have to suffer the full impact of an ECB rate rise then. The "funding cost" is only a proportion of the rate rise if the mortgage was bought at a discount. Anyone with variable rate policy should have to justify their rate and changes to it, showing exactly how a rate rise is attributed; funding cost, expenses, profit etc.

In reading all this, it seems absolutely mad to have punters exposed to interest rate risk at all!
 
This is the key table

View attachment 7762
29,000 are on trackers, so it doesn't matter if they can switch or not. They are not paying egregiously high rates, so they should not switch.

34,000 are paying egregiously high rates and can't switch.

Brendan
An excellent summary, thank you.

But aren’t these borrowers who, at various times, have defaulted on their obligations? Shouldn’t they pay higher rates? Isn’t this the market doing what the market does?
 
An excellent summary, thank you.

But aren’t these borrowers who, at various times, have defaulted on their obligations? Shouldn’t they pay higher rates? Isn’t this the market doing what the market does?
I've made that point before too.
 
I met the staff involved earlier in the year. I was surprised at their lack of appreciation of the issue e.g.
"The vulture funds are allowing people to fix their repayments". They didn't seem to fully appreciate that this was different from fixing the mortgage rate. I was a bit confused. They must have understood this so it's possible that they were taking a Devil's Advocate approach.

"The vulture funds are just passing on the rate increases". They did not appreciate how artificially high variable rates were in the first place.
If they don't understand the basics, and they are in charge, they shouldn't be in the role of overseeing anything banking. Everybody on the planet knows vulture funds rates are higher. If they weren't we'd all be banking with them. This is extraordinary stuff from the Central Bank.

Even worse is that you're in there educating them. Are they not experts themselves. After all the mess in the last decade. How do these people get jobs in there, don't they pay really well for top people.
 
If they don't understand the basics, and they are in charge, they shouldn't be in the role of overseeing anything banking.

@Bronte

I am trying to figure this out.

The Central Bankers and the Dept of Finance staff are public servants. They are well paid. They don't need to worry about unemployment or a loss in income or mortgage arrears. So they are out of touch.

They get their information by asking the vulture funds for data, by asking the main banks for data and by reading up on economic and financial textbooks.

It would be great if we could get the vulture fund victims to write into the Governor outlining how the Central Bank's action and lack of action is causing them such hardship.

There are occasional round table which David Hall and I attend, but they spend a huge amount of the short time available talking about much less important issues.

Brendan
 
I got a non-response from the Central Bank which is attached.

Brendan
 

Attachments

  • 230824 CB Response Letter Mr Brendan Burgess- Mortgages docx.pdf
    93.9 KB · Views: 226
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