Mimimum Wage Debate last night on TV3

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Mimimum Wage Debate last night on TV3

Vincent Brown kept on asking the restaurant guy would he survive on the mimimum wage - without an answer.

It is good that this show will continue over the Summer.

The Frontline is taking a break.
 
Minimum wage jobs are not there for survival. Their initial function is to get people on the first rung of the ladder when it comes to employment. These jobs are usually geared towards people that tend not to be academically minded and gain more experience from working than studying full time.
 
Mimimum Wage Debate last night on TV3

Vincent Brown kept on asking the restaurant guy would he survive on the mimimum wage - without an answer.

It is good that this show will continue over the Summer.

The Frontline is taking a break.

Vincent Browne is a buffoon. He is utterly biased and does everything he can to skew the debate towards his nonsensical smoked salmon socialist agenda.
Whether someone could survive on the minimum wage is irrelevant. We are, thankfully, still quite a bit away from “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
If Joe Blogs has a €250 a day cocaine habit should he be paid €40 an hour because that’s what he needs to cover all his costs? That's what Browne wants.
The market should set the minimum wage, though in practice social welfare rates will always set a floor below which people will not work.

Less than 3.5% of the Irish workforce is on the minimum wage, nearly all of whom are single and under 25. The motion that there are loads of families surviving on the minimum wage is laughable, for starters that would be entitled to Family Income Support and other benefits.

Browne’s argument that wages should also be capped at the upper end is also laughable. What about the business owner who mortgages their home to start a business and then spends two years working for nothing to build it up, should their wages be capped at X6 times the minimum wage? What about companies that make large profits, should the owners be forced to leave cash in the business rather than take it out as income because they might earn more than 6 times the minimum wage?

His protests about Lawyers and Doctors earning vast amounts are valid but the solution is more competition and a complaints board that can suspend, fine or strike off people that overcharge.
 
I think the Frontiline has been an improvement on Questions and Answers but as the season has gone on, a lot of the programmes seem to sound the same.

One of audience's comments struck me last night. He had been unemployed for 14 months and his wife had just given birth to their 3rd child. This meant he was out of work when they decided to extend their family. Seemed a bit irresponsible to me to take on the extra cost of another child when he was struggling already.
 
Browne’s argument that wages should also be capped at the upper end is also laughable.

I agree. Vincent thinks that this is a big solution.

That said, the minimum wage is very common in retail, catering etc.

It acts as a protection aganist expliotation.
 
That said, the minimum wage is very common in retail, catering etc.

It acts as a protection aganist expliotation.
The dole rate of €5.50 an hour acts as a protection against exploitation. The minimum wage at the highest after tax minimum wage in the EU acts as a barrier to job creation.
 
Eurostat , the EC's statistical office adjusted Ireland's minimum wage to reflect purchasing power based on the cost of living here.

Measured on this basis the Irish minimum wage drops to 6th on the table , worth less than the minimum wage paid in the UK,France,Belgium,Holland and Luxembourg.
 
If low wages was the answer to an economic recovery countries like Somalia would be economic superpowers.

Pointless cutting minimum wage unless you first cut social welfare. Otherwise it creates a poverty trap where it's more cost effective for people to claim social welfare than to get a minimum wage job.
 
Eurostat , the EC's statistical office adjusted Ireland's minimum wage to reflect purchasing power based on the cost of living here.

Measured on this basis the Irish minimum wage drops to 6th on the table , worth less than the minimum wage paid in the UK,France,Belgium,Holland and Luxembourg.

Over 15% of the French workforce is on the minimum wage. That shows that there is a higher proportion of lower paid people there.
 
The dole rate of €5.50 an hour acts as a protection against exploitation. The minimum wage at the highest after tax minimum wage in the EU acts as a barrier to job creation.


Mimimum wage jobs require training.

Bar/restaurant work requires skill.
The mimimum wage is a protection.

I worked in jobs (prior to the mimimum wage) that paid less than the dole.

eg. accountancy offices.

The option of welfare is no safegaurd aganist expliotation.
 
Over 15% of the French workforce is on the minimum wage. That shows that there is a higher proportion of lower paid people there.

Does'nt alter the fact that given the cost of living here the minimum wage is probably set at the correct level.
 
Does'nt alter the fact that given the cost of living here the minimum wage is probably set at the correct level.

Yes, if you think the cost of living is acceptable then the minimum wage is acceptable.

Anyone calling for a lower minimum wage here is doing so because they think the cost of living should come down also.
 
Yes, if you think the cost of living is acceptable then the minimum wage is acceptable.

Anyone calling for a lower minimum wage here is doing so because they think the cost of living should come down also.

Given the relatively small percentage of employees on the minimum wage it is highly debatable that a reduction in the minimum wage would impact the cost of living in any dramatic fashion.

It is not a case of finding the cost of living acceptable it's dealing with the reality of the current situation re the cost of living .
 
Mimimum Wage Debate last night on TV3

Vincent Brown kept on asking the restaurant guy would he survive on the minimum wage - without an answer.
The interviewee (rep from the Hotels/Restaurents federation I think) was very, very weak. Any half-decent rep would have pointed out to Vincent that no-one in fact survives on the minimum wage. They get a whole lot of other supports from the state (such as housing/rent allowance/medical card etc) that allow them to survive.

Isn't it nice of the state to effectively subsidise these low wages?

Minimum wage jobs are not there for survival. Their initial function is to get people on the first rung of the ladder when it comes to employment. These jobs are usually geared towards people that tend not to be academically minded and gain more experience from working than studying full time.

I really don't believe this at all. For the vast majority of people in minimum and low wage jobs, there is no training, no development opportunities and no support to move onwards or upwards. Combine this with poor schooling and a social environment that does not value work, and the end result is that few people with develop beyond a low wage environment. A very small minority might manage to crawl their way over the threshold, but that is the exception, not the rule.

But regardless of this, we need to look at the post rather than the person. Even if the employee manages to develop themselves, the minimum wage post exists for the next bloke/gal. Society is unlikely to ever pay a decent living wage to those who mind our children, our elderly parents and our disabled brothers and sisters.

One of audience's comments struck me last night. He had been unemployed for 14 months and his wife had just given birth to their 3rd child. This meant he was out of work when they decided to extend their family. Seemed a bit irresponsible to me to take on the extra cost of another child when he was struggling already.
These things aren't always planned.

Eurostat , the EC's statistical office adjusted Ireland's minimum wage to reflect purchasing power based on the cost of living here.

Measured on this basis the Irish minimum wage drops to 6th on the table , worth less than the minimum wage paid in the UK,France,Belgium,Holland and Luxembourg.

Very interesting.
If low wages was the answer to an economic recovery countries like Somalia would be economic superpowers.
Brilliant - I'll be using that line again.
Which contributes IMO to keeping the cost of living high here
Or else it contributes towards allowing the recipients keep their heads above water in a high-cost environment.
 
But how do you get one of them down so that the other follows?

Chicken or egg!????
 
The interviewee (rep from the Hotels/Restaurents federation I think) was very, very weak. Any half-decent rep would have pointed out to Vincent that no-one in fact survives on the minimum wage. They get a whole lot of other supports from the state (such as housing/rent allowance/medical card etc) that allow them to survive.
I agree.

Isn't it nice of the state to effectively subsidise these low wages?
That’s where I disagree with socialists. I don’t think am employer should have to pay an employee based on what the employees costs are. I think they should pay their employees based on the value of the job they do. The social responsibility that the employer has is to pay their taxes. They state can then use that money to fun whatever social safety net they desire.

I really don't believe this at all. For the vast majority of people in minimum and low wage jobs, there is no training, no development opportunities and no support to move onwards or upwards. Combine this with poor schooling and a social environment that does not value work, and the end result is that few people with develop beyond a low wage environment. A very small minority might manage to crawl their way over the threshold, but that is the exception, not the rule.
I agree with that as well but you are arguing for more resources or better allocation of resources from the state rather than paying higher wages to people who’s input into a business doesn’t warrant it.

But regardless of this, we need to look at the post rather than the person. Even if the employee manages to develop themselves, the minimum wage post exists for the next bloke/gal.
I agree with that as well but I don’t see it as a problem.

Society is unlikely to ever pay a decent living wage to those who mind our children, our elderly parents and our disabled brothers and sisters.
I don’t see how that has anything to do with the discussion as the state pays carers as part of the social infrastructure or do you think that employers should pay people more if they have dependent parents and/or disabled children?
 
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