M50 Toll Bridge - "Processing Charge" €41.50?

[bond-007]

The rental company may have an account with eflow and they get charged that way. The rental company will then of course pass on the charge plus an admin fee.

 

[Bonzo]

Has anyone ever heard of a person been taken to court for non payment of TOIL charges?
Don't take this as gosbel but maybe is it not because under consummer law that a consummer has to be given an option and on the M50 you are not given an option to turn off to avoid paying the charges or there is no sign stating that if you continue you will be charged I'm not a solicitor but I've had several conversations about it and honestly I have never heard of anyone been taken to court for unpaid fines.
I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this I could be wrong so don't not pay the fine based on my coments please.

 

[Complainer]

Don't take this as gosbel but maybe is it not because under consummer law that a consummer has to be given an option and on the M50 you are not given an option to turn off to avoid paying the charges or there is no sign stating that if you continue you will be charged I'm not a solicitor but I've had several conversations about it and honestly I have never heard of anyone been taken to court for unpaid fines.

There are warnings on all the approaches to the bridge telling you that there is a toll ahead after the next junction. When heading northbound on the M50, there are signs saying 'toll after N4 junction' giving you option of turning off at that junction.

Is there anybody out there who can post how they arrived at the figure of €41.50 for a procesing charge? I mean really all they are doing is putting a letter into an envelope and posting it, how can that possibly cost €41.50.

Since when did charges for services (or goods) relate to cost of that service or good? The charges you pay for most goods and services have no relation to the cost.

 

[eamonb]

because its a rental car as far as i know youll recieve a bill from the rental company for the charges that they incure (for you using the privately operated road that was SOLD by the N.R.A)plus some administration charges on top of that

 

[markpb]

(for you using the privately operated road that was SOLD by the N.R.A)

Where are you getting this? The NRA hired a private company to collect tolls for crossing a bridge on the M50. All the tolls collected go back to the NRA and the tolling company are paid a fee for their work. Nothing has been sold (unless you're talking about the original PPP contract with NTR which is no longer valid).

 

[Bonzo]

Thanks for that markpb

 

[eamonb]

my mistake sorry let me fix that with an extract for the irish independent:-
When the motorway was bought from National Toll Roads (NTR) for €600m last year, toll revenue of €80m per year was forecast.But this amount will exceed expectations for the first full year of operation due to late payment fines and penalties.
you can press the link for the full article
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/motorists-fork-out-euro50000-on-m50-toll-fines-every-day-1937659.html
The national roads authority is a company press the link

And dont Companies operate for profit???
They charge 41.50 processing charge this alone should make it obvious that they are operating for profit

 

[markpb]

The national roads authority is a company press the link

And dont Companies operate for profit???
They charge 41.50 processing charge this alone should make it obvious that they are operating for profit

The NRA is a semi-state company, meaning the government is the primary (and in this case only) shareholder. Any profits it makes are either ploughed back into the company (to pay for the upkeep of national primary roads) or given back to the exchequer (to pay for the upkeep of the country). It's the same type of company as ESB, Bord Gais, Enterprise Ireland and CIE.

A company makes a profit if it's outgoings exceed it's income. How can you say that the NRAs outgoing exceed it's income based on a charge of €41.50 to remind you to pay your toll? In reality, this is a fine but only courts can issue fines so the NRA call it a processing charge to avoid legal problems.

 

[eamonb]

i thought semi-state bodies were non profit?
also doesnt our road tax pay for the upkeep of roads
-Motor tax is a charge imposed by the Government on some motor vehicles. The revenue from this tax is used to maintain and upgrade the road network in Ireland-http://www.citizensinformation.ie
i can say that the NRAs outgoing exceed it's income based on -
But another €12m has been collected in penalties and fines -- or 16pc of all revenue.
When the motorway was bought from National Toll Roads (NTR) for €600m last year, toll revenue of €80m per year was forecast.
But this amount will exceed expectations for the first full year of operation due to late payment fines and penalties.
read the article on the previous link
you are also implying that the nra is using deceit to impose fines by calling them processing charges in law deceit is fraud and fraud would void a contract with them.what legal problems would they be trying to avoid???

 

[markpb]

i thought semi-state bodies were non profit?

Nope. They can (and sometimes do) return a profit to their shareholder (the minister responsible). If my memory is correct, ESB, Bord Gais and An Post have all paid dividends to the exchequer. I'm not saying that's a good thing (perhaps they should have lowered their prices to result in a break-even situation) but it's the way things are done.

i can say that the NRAs outgoing exceed it's income based on -
"But another €12m has been collected in penalties and fines -- or 16pc of all revenue."

That says nothing at all, other than they are making substantial amounts of money in penalties. It doesn't say anything about their profit on the M50 or their profit as a whole.

you are also implying that the nra is using deceit to impose fines by calling them processing charges in law deceit is fraud and fraud would void a contract with them.what legal problems would they be trying to avoid???

You have no legal contract with them - their ability to toll the road is set down in legislation, just like all the other toll roads in the country. As a semi-state and not a member of a judiciary, they are not allowed issue fines so instead they use "processing charges" to encourage people to pay on time. This is used by many companies, both semi-state and private. Dublin Bus have a standard charge of €45 which is discounted to €1.10/€1.60 if you pay cash to the driver. If an inspector sees that you failed to pay the driver, he asks you to pay the standard charge. It looks like a fine, acts like a fine (and quacks like a fine) but because DB aren't a court, it's not a fine.

 

[eamonb]

MINISTER FOR Social and Family Affairs Mary Hanafin has described as “outrageous” the salaries paid to chief executives of some semi-State bodies.
Ms Hanafin said “it is outrageous for the head of a body, such as Coillte or the ESB, to receive a salary of €400,000 or more”.
ye cant justify something thats wrong just because were used to it
as for the money side of things kompass.ie will sell a copy of their records such as
Executives ,Key figures (turnover, ...) ,Activity description ,Products & services.but it costs about 120 euro so that will have to wait.
if theres no contract then they cant charge you money which is the consideration as in everything else like buying something in a shop its a contract u buy something they recieve something(money).
Legislation or acts require consent of the governed ,so you have to agree to let them charge you x amount if you do not consent then you do not contract with them.search for "john harris" on you tube he explains it better then i ever will.