LPT per property or per unit/flat

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Bronte

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If a single property is divided into 3 flats does it require an LPT per flat. It was clear for NPPR it was per 'unit'. So if you had a house and a granny flat, or if you had one house divided into 2 or 3 flats you paid per flat/unit.

This is a case of one legal title, one gas/water charge. It would have been one corporation rates, now one bin charge. Electricity is per flat. Was 3 NPPR's. And there are this year 3 BER's.

What is the legal/tax position on here. With a link if possible.

For historical context LPT is in existence since 2012.
 
ClubMan said:
First result in a Google search for "lpt unit flat".

Residential properties that are liable for LPT

This page explains what a liable property for Local Property Tax is
www.revenue.ie www.revenue.ie
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I am totally shocked to read this now . I most definetly have correspondence somewhere from someone in LPT section advising at the time that it was only one payment per house irrespective of how many units once all under the one roof.
Reason I enquired was because I had to pay the penalties for nppr as had only paid one nppr instead of 3.

Must try find the correspondence.
 
Meath Lady said:
I am totally shocked to read this now . I most definetly have correspondence somewhere from someone in LPT section advising at the time that it was only one payment per house irrespective of how many units once all under the one roof.
Reason I enquired was because I had to pay the penalties for nppr as had only paid one nppr instead of 3.

Must try find the correspondence.
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I have just found a reply stating that as the flats/apartments cannot be sold separately only one LP T is required.
 
Meaning of a “residential property”
Part 01-01
This document should be read in conjunction with sections 2 and 2A of the Finance
(Local Property Tax) Act 2012 (as amended)
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Attachments

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Prior discussions

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/local-property-tax-lpt-how-much-would-a-professional-valuation-cost.175109/

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/lpt-are-owners-afraid-to-disagree-with-revenues-estimate.177742/

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/what-happens-if-purchasers-find-the-seller-undervalued-the-property-for-lpt.183739/

What happens if purchasers find the seller undervalued the property for LPT?
Moved from another thread What happens in Year 2020 and revenue decides that property x was undervalued in the years 2013/2014/2015/2016. Or conversly what happens if the property was overvalued. Revenue and the Law Society need to get that sorted as well.
www.askaboutmoney.com

LPT: Are owners afraid to disagree with Revenue's Estimate?
I received the LPT1 today for a rental property - a terraced property in an estate of 65 identical and similar houses. One idential property in this estate was sold in May 2012 for €88,000 and one very similar property with one extra bedroom was sold for €89,000 in March 2012. I have printed...
www.askaboutmoney.com


Local Property Tax (LPT): How much would a professional valuation cost?
How much would a valuation cost for Local Property Tax purposes?
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
Meath Lady said:
I have just found a reply stating that as the flats/apartments cannot be sold separately only one LP T is required.
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We had many discussions on here, including about what a relief it was we no longer had to pay the NPPR per unit. When this new rate/tax was introduced it was all about how do you value a property, revenue themselves created valuation bands that we could rely on. I valued my divided property based on my real life view of the property price at the time. And thought no more of it.

My flats cannot be sold separately, they are not 3 separate flats, instead they are one building that was divided into 3 flats before I purchased them.
 
2013 Tax briefing. No mention that it was per unit/flat. It was all about property bands. All about looking up prior sales, getting an auctioneer, using the revenue valuation, looking at the property price register.

The Revenue Commissioners will provide indicative property values that liable persons can rely on to assess the valuation band for their property. Alternatively, a liable person can self-assess or use a competent valuer. Where the Revenue indicative value is selected, or where certain procedures (such as engaging a professional valuer) which will be published in guidelines or regulations, are followed by liable persons, property valuations will not be challenged by the Revenue B.28Commissioners. This, and the 3-year valuation date, will provide certainty for liable persons in relation to valuation
 
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Anybody hear a rule that if a flat can be rented separately they have to be valued separately for LPT?

I don't recall such guidance from revenue in 2012?
 
Bronte said:
Anybody hear a rule that if a flat can be rented separately they have to be valued separately for LPT?

I don't recall such guidance from revenue in 2012?
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I cannot quote the rule, but this is how we did it. It was probably what Revenue advised at the time, as it brings in more money. 5 Units * Min LPT rate is more than the value of the House's LPT rate.
 
Towger said:
I cannot quote the rule, but this is how we did it. It was probably what Revenue advised at the time, as it brings in more money. 5 Units * Min LPT rate is more than the value of the House's LPT rate.
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I read everything at the time and it was never the case that it was per unit. In stark contrast to both the NPPR and the Household charge. If you have Revenue advise from the time that advised that it's per flat I'd really appreciate seeing it.

Revenue said they've value properties and created a map for it. I valued my property based on my knowledge of property sold in the same area. But nobody was selling separate divided flats in one building.

And a couple of years ago because on the LPT revenue website it mentioned Flat 1 I got them to change it to delete Flat 1 to just the address itself.
 
Towger said:
I cannot quote the rule, but this is how we did it. It was probably what Revenue advised at the time, as it brings in more money. 5 Units * Min LPT rate is more than the value of the House's LPT rate.
Click to expand...

So does that mean any house that has a self-contained unit rented to tenants should be paying extra LPT?
 
bipped said:
So does that mean any house that has a self-contained unit rented to tenants should be paying extra LPT?
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www.oireachtas.ie

Tuesday, 11 Jun 2013

Tuesday, 11 Jun 2013 Written Answers Nos. 168-179
www.oireachtas.ie

Whilst the strict legal position is that any self-contained dwelling, such as a granny flat, is treated as a separate residential property that will incur a separate LPT liability, Revenue recognises that certain types of dwelling that are an integral part of a larger building may be difficult to value and sell on the open market. Therefore Revenue will give a liable person the option of valuing a granny flat as part of the overall building where the liable person in relation to both parts of the building is the same. However, where there is a different liable person in relation to the granny flat and the rest of the building, the granny flat should be valued separately for LPT purposes. This treatment also applies to other similar types of dwelling that are an integral part of the overall building such as converted garages and side extensions.
 

A) What does market value mean?Market value refers to the value that the property could be sold for in an arm’s lengthtransaction on the open market on 1 May 2013. The definition in the Act refers to“chargeable value” as opposed to market value. However, in most cases they will bethe same thing (see part 1

B) Issues with specific types of propertyI have a granny flat adjoining my house – do I have to pay tax on this?The strict rule is that any self-contained dwelling if it is capable of independent sale,such as a separate granny flat, is treated as a separate residential property and willtherefore incur a separate LPT liability. However, Revenue guidance states that a liableperson will be given the option of valuing a granny flat as part of the overall buildingwhere the liable person in relation to both parts of the building is the same. However,where there is a different liable person in relation to the granny flat and the rest of thebuilding, the granny flat should be valued separately for LPT purposes. In most casesa granny flat will not be capable of independent sale and therefore will not be liable forLocal Property Tax (LPT
 
Discussed here

LPT on property in multiple units

Can anyone confirm whether LPT is payable per property or payable per unit of property? The property in question has only 1 title and the units could not be sold as individual units as it currently stands. NPPR for 2013 was paid on the individual units but only 1 LPT charge paid. Liability is...
www.askaboutmoney.com

and here:

How are attached Granny Flats being assessed for the LPT?

I see in the Household Charge there is provision for them but there is none in the new LPT? Is this an oversight? Or will a person with a flat (separate meters, separate entrance) worth €20,000 on an €80,000 house have to pay double the LPT? ie both are in the
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
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I was correct. Something did happen. Revenue has made a decision to change the rules from 2022 onwards.

Could accountants on here let me know if Revenue sent a circular/briefing on their new decision/policy/change or rule.
 
Meath Lady said:
I have just found a reply stating that as the flats/apartments cannot be sold separately only one LP T is required.
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You were correct. But it's no longer the case since the new valuations . I'm sure that this change of policy would have been highlighted to landlords by revenue, and brought to the attention of accountants in a revenue briefing etc. @T McGibney

Oddly my sibling in Ireland has not heard of any such information from his accountant, he didn't read any newspaper article about it, nor did he see a letter from revenue telling him of the change in 2022.
 
Bronte said:
You were correct. But it's no longer the case since the new valuations . I'm sure that this change of policy would have been highlighted to landlords by revenue, and brought to the attention of accountants in a revenue briefing etc. @T McGibney

Oddly my sibling in Ireland has not heard of any such information from his accountant, he didn't read any newspaper article about it, nor did he see a letter from revenue telling him of the change in 2022.
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Revenue these days brief accountants on very little, least of all LPT. We of course can access the usual eBriefs, Tax & Duty Manuals etc as can everyone else.
 
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