I have experienced the same thing. Many Germans (+Dutch/Italians/Swedes...) I have contact with seem to view our NO vote with a mixture of confusion and thinly disguised dersion.
lisbon vote
- Thread starter cleverclogs7
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I have experienced the same thing. Many Germans (+Dutch/Italians/Swedes...) I have contact with seem to view our NO vote with a mixture of confusion and thinly disguised dersion.
That's a ridiculous statement. I voted No because I believe we've ceded enough sovereignty to the EU and I don't want a Federal Europe.
Indeed. A sound basis to vote Yes
. By 'Europe' I assume you mean the EU plutocracy.
We can agree on that sound advise. One good reason to vote No, even for those who voted Yes last time, is democratic principle. We said No, our Government should have told the EU No, and the EU should have followed their own rules and scrapped the treaty. EU structures should exist for the benefit of member nations' citizens and not for the benefit of EU career politicians and civil servants.
L
lightswitch
Guest
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574404643114251588.html
Ganley is back by the looks of things
Ganley is back by the looks of things
Z
z104
Guest
Deja vu
Two friends have told me they are voting no because ....
o Min wage will be 1.84 if Lisbon is passed
o There will be conscription and Ireland will get involved in wars
o Ireland will lose its 'neutrality'
I really despair at the gullibility of people who believe such nonsense.
If anything the whole European project will prevent wars. Do people not study history at School anymore. 2 world wars because of a divided Europe. I say bring it on. Vote yes.
While I'm pro Yes I just dont buy that theory, the world has moved on anyway - plus the entire EU wont disintegrate if we vote No. Its just that it gives the impression there must be v little to recommend a yes vote if thats a suggested reason to vote yes (Vote Yes btw
)While I'm pro Yes I just dont buy that theory, the world has moved on anyway - plus the entire EU wont disintegrate if we vote No. Its just that it gives the impression there must be v little to recommend a yes vote if thats a suggested reason to vote yes (Vote Yes btw
I think Europe was a bit annoyed at the last Bosnia situation where it couldn't mobilise quick enough because of the American stake in NATO. While it wouldn't have prevented conflict, there's a chance things may not have escalated to the situation they did. And despite what people think it was only because of some very honerable begging from Tony Blair that eventually got support.
I think Europe was concerned that it couldn't move to resolve issues within it's own borders without the consent of America. While it makes sense practically and, as we've found these last few years, morally, to not have armies at the mercy of the American Military, it's another of those "sensisble" issues that require a new agreement.
Though of course, the American military is a bit upset and fearful that a unified European army would have a bit more clout globally than them and so have been trying to nix this part for a while...did someone say Ganley is back?
Voted no last time
Will be voting no again this time.
If it goes again I will be voting no
Chances are it will keep going until they get a yes but whats the point in having a vote if they are not happy with the way you vote anyway and try to get you to do it again and give in. I for one won't be giving in.
Will be voting no again this time.
If it goes again I will be voting no
Chances are it will keep going until they get a yes but whats the point in having a vote if they are not happy with the way you vote anyway and try to get you to do it again and give in. I for one won't be giving in.
As a matter of interest what is the reason?
Irish people like to say No. We like to break the rules and rebel against the establishment. It's part of our psyche. Even tho the Yes campaign had all-party support last time out, it was defeated, mainly due to Ganley and Govt overconfidence.
I think a second No vote will be detrimental to this country but I do acknowledge that the govt has handled it badly.
I will vote Yes and hope it is passed.
I think a second No vote will be detrimental to this country but I do acknowledge that the govt has handled it badly.
I will vote Yes and hope it is passed.
starlite68
Registered User
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No last time,and No this time from me.
European unity 'on paper' and without any practical power in the early 90's could not stop or control the biggest bloodshed on its own doorstep. This was and still is a huge issue. Current EU is a massive bureaucracy, struggling to implement any initiatives accross the board while 'the new Europe' would have more control over pan-European law, economy, law enforcement and would be in a better position to secure equal rights for all EU citizens. Furthermore, Europeans traditionally fought among themselves so unless any part of Europe was invaded by aliens or people from any other continent (won't discriminate), the chances of conscription are very slim.
My pet peeve on the whole Lisbon issue is this 'Germans would have 17% voting power while Irish would have 0.3%' (or something similar I saw on a poster). There are 4.5m Irish and 82m Germans, do your own maths!!! It's besides the point but in the last 5 - 6 decades, Germans ran their country in a much more sustainable and prudent manner than Irish did so giving them more power may not be such a bad thing.
Completely agree with this but as I said elsewhere earlier the only certain way to make sure Lisbon passes (and I hope it does...) would be for Cowan to say he would commit to a general election if Lisbon is passed rather than leave people to assume there will be an election if it is rejected.......... Come on Cowan, do the right thing for once.
Roy
starlite68
Registered User
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cowan would never agree to that...like all politicians his ego is too big!
Same reason that I'm saying no again Bond. Makes me angry how it can be decided that we didn't mean no the last time - like we're small children who don't understand. Someone else mentioned 'nannying state'.... about sums it up!
Makes you wonder if it is rejected again....what will be the tactics then?? Reword, rename and go again, maybe?
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Controversial I know but I think the next referendum should be whether we Irish can participate in any future referendums! When I heard people's reasoning for voting YES and NO in the last Lisbon referendum, I dispaired and the thought struck me that most people are too naive and too easily taken in by biased individuals on these complex issues. Like most of Europe, we should leave these important decisions to our elected representatives and public servants - sure they know what is good for us ...
...Like most of Europe, we should leave these important decisions to our elected representatives and public servants - sure they know what is good for us
Having said already that you intend to vote 'Yes' now you really are scaring the bejaysus out of me! If you just had a quick think about what you last posted then you would find 1,000+ reasons to vote 'No'.