Just discovered that our garage is not compliant with the planning permission granted

A

anamcara

Guest
We have just discovered that our garage is not compliant with the planning permission granted.

When we got our pp we just handed the lot over to the builder and he built the garage. This was 5 years ago.

The permission did state it had to be 1m from the boundary. While it is at one end the front of the garage is only 500mm from boundary. (the boundary is at an angle). What should we do about this?

If we apply for retention could our neighbours object? Or should we leave well enough alone? Is it ok after a certain length of time?

We dont know what to do about this. Is it likely that we would have to knock the garage?

We are governed by Wicklow County Council and are living in a housing estate.
 
A friend mentioned that the regulation was 1 metre and wanted to know if we'd had an issue getting our permission. It was only then we looked at our granted permission and measured ot the boundary. It is 1 metre at the widest part but decreases to 500mm. Regardless of how it was discovered where do we stand legally?
 
If the original permission was for both house and garage then the problem affects the permission for the house as well.

You would then have to apply for retention permission for both the house and the garage. Unless there are aggravating circumstances, you are likely to get retention permission - but you should talk to a competent professional.

The council's right to require you to knock down the unauthorised development starts at the end of validity of the Permission (i.e. 5 years from date of Permission) and this lasts for 7 years. At that point, it remains unauthorised development and there will always be difficulties selling it on. There are also difficulties associated with this. If your land is CPO'd, the state does not need to pay you for the value of the property. If the property burns down, you do not have a right to rebuild. Also you have no right to be connected to water supply.
However the council loses the right to ask you to knock it down.

If you apply for Retention, your neighbour can object.
 
Superman,

Hats off to you.

I actually thought you were wrong about the effective 12 year time to take action regarding offences where a permission was granted.

This is because the council only have 7 years in which to take action for offences for which permission was not sought.

This seems inequitable, but this appears to be the relevant section and you seem to be in the right. :)

I'd appreciate if if you could give references about the right to CPO compensation and rebuilding - is permission only needed for commercial developments?

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

===================================

From: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0030/print.html

Number 30 of 2000

PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT ACT, 2000

Prosecution of offences.

157.—(1) Subject to section 149 , summary proceedings for an offence under this Act may be brought and prosecuted by a planning authority whether or not the offence is committed in the authority's functional area.

(2) Notwithstanding section 10(4) of the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act, 1851, and subject to subsection (3) of this section, summary proceedings may be commenced—
(a) at any time within 6 months from the date on which the offence was committed, or

(b) at any time within 6 months from the date on which evidence sufficient, in the opinion of the person by whom the proceedings are initiated, to justify proceedings comes to that person's knowledge,
​
whichever is the later.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a certificate signed by or on behalf of the person initiating the proceedings as to the date or dates on which evidence described in subsection (2)(b) came to his or her knowledge shall be evidence of the date or dates and in any legal proceedings a document purporting to be a certificate under this section and to be so signed shall be deemed to be so signed and shall be admitted as evidence without proof of the signature of the person purporting to sign the certificate, unless the contrary is shown.

(4)
(a) No warning letter or enforcement notice shall issue and no proceedings for an offence under this Part shall commence—
(i) in respect of a development where no permission has been granted, after seven years from the date of the commencement of the development;

(ii) in respect of a development for which permission has been granted under Part III, after seven years beginning on the expiration, as respects the permission authorising the development, of the appropriate period within the meaning of section 40 or, as the case may be, of the period as extended under section 42 .
​
(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), proceedings may be commenced at any time in respect of any condition concerning the use of land to which the permission is subject.

(c) It shall be presumed until the contrary is proved that proceedings were commenced within the appropriate period.
​
(5) Proceedings for other offences under this Act shall not be initiated later than 7 years from the date on which the offence concerned was alleged to have been committed.
 
the garage was not built with the house as the house predates it by 5 years. Separate planning permission was sought for the garage. This was granted in Oct 03. We would not be in a good position to apply for retention as our next door neighbours are have never been very friendly since they moved in and seem to grumble about everything all the neighbours do. I would not take the chance. I suspect this leaves us in a bad situation. Or at least until Oct 1010 when the permission will be 7 yrs old??
 
Personally I would do nothing as the discovery of the error was by yourselves.

You built in good faith, got a builder and took it that all was well.

You would be opening a can of worms by going fro retention now especially with awkward neighbours.

Wait .... and if an issue arises with it deal with it then.

My question on who discovered it .... I was just wondering if a 3rd party had raised the issue ... as they haven't leave well enough alone.
 
Mmm......thats what I am thinking. I just need to be sure we are going to be ok legally if anything is mentioned after October as my understanding is that if all is well until then, well we're on the pigs back.
 
anamcara said:
Mmm......thats what I am thinking. I just need to be sure we are going to be ok legally if anything is mentioned after October as my understanding is that if all is well until then, well we're on the pigs back.
Click to expand...
No you are only safe after year 12 from the date of the grant of permission. You are also safe until year 6 from the date of the grant of permission. The reason is that you have 5 years to build in accordance with your Permission. At any stage in that 5 years if there were a non-compliant part you could say "I'm not finished yet". So the Council's right to enforce has to wait until the 5 years is up. The Council has that right for 7 years from that date (i.e. October 2015).

I'd appreciate if if you could give references about the right to CPO compensation and rebuilding - is permission only needed for commercial developments?
Click to expand...
Randomly picked up back in the day for RIAI exams- I think some of it is from David Keane's book... Don't know about commercial.

At OP:
Personally in your situation I would also play dumb...
 
Oh Ok. Best keep our heads down for the next 5 and half years so. Thanks for all the replies.
 
Superman said:
(snippage has occurred)
Randomly picked up back in the day for RIAI exams- I think some of it is from David Keane's book... Don't know about commercial.
Click to expand...
It was a full answer and well-recorded.
I'll have a look in the Keane books later in the week.
I could not find it online on a quick search.
I expect it'll be in Building and the Law.

Had a look online in the Statutes and Acts, but most comments seem to relate back to CPO in general and couldn't find that limiitation.
I think this stems from the basic principle in law that one shouldn't acquire a benefit from doing wrong.
So if someone built a 5,000 sqft Castle without permission they would get no compo.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
anamcara

Do you mind if I ask why you went for permission for the garage?

Normally they're exempted development and there seems to be no 1M restriction on proximity.

However my understanding is that once the development is already covered by a permission you have to abide by it.

IOW you cannot now turn around and claim - if it might have been compliant otherwise with the exempted development schedule - that its exempted.

See below.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.

--------------------------------------------------------

From:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS.

S.I. No. 600 of 2001.

PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, 2001


SCHEDULE 2

Article 6

Part 1
Exempted Development — General


Column 1
Description of Development

CLASS 3

The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of any tent, awning, shade or other object, greenhouse, garage, store, shed or other similar structure.


Column 2
Conditions and Limitations

1. No such structure shall be constructed, erected or placed forward of the front wall of a house.
2. The total area of such structures constructed, erected or placed within the curtilage of a house shall not, taken together with any other such structures previously constructed, erected or placed within the said curtilage, exceed 25 square metres.
3. The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of any such structure shall not reduce the amount of private open space reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house to the rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres.
4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed, erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those of the house.
5. The height of any such structure shall not exceed, in the case of a building with a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or, in any other case, 3 metres.
6. The structure shall not be used for human habitation or for the keeping of pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses, or for any other purpose other than a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house as such.
 
We applied for planning permission as the structure is over 25sq m.

Next question. If they have been to planning Dept to look at our plans and permission granted. Can I find out? I know to view plans you have to fill out a form stating name etc. Can I request to see who has viewed our planning permission?
 
forgot to mention that we now suspect this friend is trying to get information from us regarding our garage and permission. He has now mentioned that our next dorr neighbour has grumbled that the garage is not more than 1m to boundary. Lol! Neighbours.
 
anamcara said:
We applied for planning permission as the structure is over 25sq m.

Next question. If they have been to planning Dept to look at our plans and permission granted. Can I find out? I know to view plans you have to fill out a form stating name etc. Can I request to see who has viewed our planning permission?
Click to expand...

Most local authorities publish this stuff on line - I'd guess thats where most people will look first. They dont have to give any details to download the documentation.
 
You may have a few options in relation to dealing with all of this.

If the planning permission plans showed the garage in the correct location [i.e. 1M away from the boundary] then the problem appears to lie with the main contractor having built it incorrectly.

If the plans showed it where it was built [i.e. less than 1M away from the boundary] but a condition required the relocation to 1M away the builder should have taken this into account.

If a building professional was involved then there may be some liability attached, expecially if the work or monies spent were certified.

Of course, there may have been a problem with the original planning drawings.

These might have assumed a straight site where it was bevelled and so this should have been picked up at setting out by the contractor/ building professional.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
What is the worst they can do... .

can they make you knock the garage or the house?
 
They can require you to build in accordance with the original permission.

More importantly, if this non-compliance is declared a breach of planning regulations, anyone can take a Section 160 action in a court of law.

That having been said, this is Wicklow, and relatively minor breaches are not always pursued - except where there are issues raised by truculent neighbours.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
Is it not the case that someone (presumably an architect) would have had to certify to the council that the building was completed the buidling in accordance withthe planning permission?

In the absence of any such certification, will the building not always be "illegal" (for want of a better word) and therfore impossible to sell at any point in the future?
 
There is no obligation for any professional to certify any works to the Council as a matter of right - certificates are sought by Employers/Clients.

In post #11 to this thread, I noted:

"If a building professional was involved then there may be some liability attached, expecially if the work or monies spent were certified."

Unfortunately, a lack of certification does not confirm lack of compliance or that the development is unauthorised per se.

Would that it did - there would be far more work around for building professionals generally and better completions.

ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matters at hand.
 
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