I think the issue for Israel is to maintain pressure on Hamas.
There are many circumstances in which the security forces of any nation can seize and take control of any ship flying under any flag in international waters. Even if those international waters are 1,000s miles away from their terroritories. The Proliferation Security Initiative is one I can think off right now and is probably not the one used in this instance (using it as an example), but their are a wide range of these initiatives, many of which are controlled by UN agreements, in existance.
I think thats their fundamental flaw/miscalculation, their dis-proportionate measures feed hatred and terrorism. You turn ordinary folk into militants.
Boarding or attacking a ship in international waters in an act of piracy / terrorism. The captain and crew of a vessel in such circumstances are entitled to take whatever measures they deem appropriate to protect their vessel and their lives.
In this case the Israelis are the pirates and terrorists and there can be no justification for their murderous actions.
If our government and diplomats had any liathróidí they'd summon the Israeli ambassador for a meeting and issue a strongly worded PE or expel him / her. I'll be very surprised if it happens or if the Brits, Obama or the EU do anything either.[/QUOTE
Our government will make a lot of angry comments and look serious but do nothing that would displease the Americans, Israel's biggest supporters. The US supports Israel because the pro-Israel lobby in American is very generous to both the Democratic and Republican parties and so they know that with the US support they can get away with anything.
If Israel were allowing enough aid into Gaza then people would not feel the need the deliver it directly to Gaza.
They're allowing in approx: 25% of what is actually needed.
Do you get it now?
Israel were invited to check the cargo at port of departure.
If the aid goes to an Israely port then there is no telling how long it will stay in a warehouse.
The UN needs to step in here.
The vessel in question was not in international waters (they begin 200 nautical miles of the cost).Boarding or attacking a ship in international waters in an act of piracy / terrorism. The captain and crew of a vessel in such circumstances are entitled to take whatever measures they deem appropriate to protect their vessel and their lives.
I do not understand what all of his hoo-ha is about.
A bunch of people want to bring aid to people that need it but the people needing it are ruled by a terrorist organisation.
When those bunch of people charter ships and announce they are going to break through a security zone set up to stop terrorists getting weapons the Israeli government offers those people that they can dock in an Israeli port and the goods (after establishing that there are no weapons in it) will be transferred to the intended destination.
Five out of 6 ships take up that offer, just one ship of hardliners decline to do so, despite that it would serve the aid goal (bringing aid).
As it does not serve the political goal of that bunch of people that one ship declines. In fact for me they became Hamas Navy at that moment.
Israel than takes action as the Hamas navy does ignore the order and tries to board the ships where they are attacked with knives, metal bars, possible guns and thrown overboard. In fact they snatched a gun from the IDF and started firing at other IDF members. Clearly not peace loving.
If these people had nothing to hide, why not allow the boarding, towing into the Israeli port where the aid would have send on. Goal archived, aid delivered and political point made. But instead these people who proclaim there are peace-loving attack other people.
In in the middle of it, Turkey. These jokers want to join the EU?
Look at the videos they clearly show how violence was used by members of the Hamas navy and that the IDF only used force once they came under attack. I’m sorry but if you hit me with a metal bar, you bet I’m going to take action against you. What would have happened if the IDF would not have responded and allowed the Hamas navy to beat their soldier to death or take them hostage?
These people are terrorist supporters! They should be jailed and not given the heroes status that some media are giving them. They clearly used violence and I suspect that they clearly hoped that Israel would stop them so that they and their terrorist friends can try to gain political capital out of this.
If they really were only concerned about the aid than they would have accepted the Israeli offer of transporting the aid to Gaza. But that clearly was not the goal.
I’m sorry for the lives lost, but if you volunteer to become a member of Hamas Navy than you have to take the risk that you die or get injured, that’s the price you pay to become a terrorist.
Jaysis. Bill O'Reilly would be embarrassed posting that!I do not understand what all of his hoo-ha is about.
A bunch of people want to bring aid to people that need it but the people needing it are ruled by a terrorist organisation.
When those bunch of people charter ships and announce they are going to break through a security zone set up to stop terrorists getting weapons the Israeli government offers those people that they can dock in an Israeli port and the goods (after establishing that there are no weapons in it) will be transferred to the intended destination.
Five out of 6 ships take up that offer, just one ship of hardliners decline to do so, despite that it would serve the aid goal (bringing aid).
As it does not serve the political goal of that bunch of people that one ship declines. In fact for me they became Hamas Navy at that moment.
Israel than takes action as the Hamas navy does ignore the order and tries to board the ships where they are attacked with knives, metal bars, possible guns and thrown overboard. In fact they snatched a gun from the IDF and started firing at other IDF members. Clearly not peace loving.
If these people had nothing to hide, why not allow the boarding, towing into the Israeli port where the aid would have send on. Goal archived, aid delivered and political point made. But instead these people who proclaim there are peace-loving attack other people.
In in the middle of it, Turkey. These jokers want to join the EU?
Look at the videos they clearly show how violence was used by members of the Hamas navy and that the IDF only used force once they came under attack. I’m sorry but if you hit me with a metal bar, you bet I’m going to take action against you. What would have happened if the IDF would not have responded and allowed the Hamas navy to beat their soldier to death or take them hostage?
These people are terrorist supporters! They should be jailed and not given the heroes status that some media are giving them. They clearly used violence and I suspect that they clearly hoped that Israel would stop them so that they and their terrorist friends can try to gain political capital out of this.
If they really were only concerned about the aid than they would have accepted the Israeli offer of transporting the aid to Gaza. But that clearly was not the goal.
I’m sorry for the lives lost, but if you volunteer to become a member of Hamas Navy than you have to take the risk that you die or get injured, that’s the price you pay to become a terrorist.
What do you think would our government do if a vessel does not agree to inspection in our Exclusive Economic Zone? In fact it’s a criminal offence not to co-operate with a marine office who wants to inspect the vessel.
Maybe if you got your facts straight, then you might realise what the hoo-ha is about.
So much rubbish in your posts that I am not even going to begin going through them.
I don’t know what sources you are using, but I looked at several different media outlets and the overall story is the same.
5 out of 6 ships took the Israeli offer, one ship refused.
Israel tells that ship that it wants to inspect it, the ship refuses.
Israel sends it IDF to the ship.
IDF staff is attacked with metal bars, knives, other objects and at least 2 guns against the order of the ships master (who can be heard to tell people to stop resisting).
I suggest you watch the video of the IDF so that you can see for yourself what was going on.
So you cannot dispute that facts can you?
You sure can call my conclusion about these terrorists rubbish, that is you right, but the facts are clear.
But the biggest drawback is that the EEZ is a UN agreement, so it only exists, is recognised and enforceable in those states that signed and ratified the agreement. Israel didn't. Therefore there is no EEZ recognised for Israel.
Your assertion that it is right to assume the ships were "hamas" is nonsense. There is no doubt that this was a protest over any kind of aid mission, Israel knew that, Turkey, Ireland and all those involved knew that. Otherwise why were there so many parliamentarians and journalists onboard? They expected trouble, the were to put up some resistance, get arrested, then some would refuse deportation and get their day in court. .
The difference is whether you consider sling shots and poles to be the weapons of terrorists (though I suppose if you take in the story of David, maybe sling shots are).
There are numerous journalists on board and I'm sure hours of footage of what happened and yet the only footage released is from Israel. All those on board are still in a communications blackout. What are the odds we'll never get to see that footage? I mean, if that backs up what Israel say happened, where's the problem? Or, as is suggested, will that footage show the ship's passengers raising the white flag once boarded and the Israel acting in aggression first?
The legality of what Israel did is a mess. Unfortunately the only means of legal defence for Israel is one based upon UN law and standards, however Israel can't cherrypick which bits of UN law it uses to support its arguments, in order to use that, then it has to recognise the other bits of UN law and statements that question the whole legality of what is happening with the blockade of Gaza.
I call guns weapons and that is what was found on board and used against the IDF.
Again, even Israel are not claiming this. They are saying that their soldiers had their own handguns used against them.
Israel says its soldiers boarded the lead ship in the early hours but were attacked with axes, knives, bars and at least two guns.