Hamas attack on Israel

The details of the attacks are becoming even more gruesome, if that is even possible. How anyone can defend the barbaric carry-on of Hamas is beyond me. They actually make the Provos look like angels. Scary to think that there are so many Irish people excusing the attacks. We must be the most anti-Semitic country in the West.
We are certainly the most anti-Israeli and that's born from a deep rooted anti-Semitism that goes back beyond the foundation of the State.

Right from the Start our governments have been anti-Semitic. In 1943 in his maiden speech to the Dail Oliver Flannagan, later Minister for Defence, said “There is one thing that Germany did and that was to rout the Jews out of their country,” he declared, saying that Ireland should follow suit. “They crucified our savior 1,900 years ago and they are crucifying us every day of the week.” He, and many across the political parties, opposed Eamonn de Valera's plans to take in Jewish orphans freeing the Nazi's. In the 1930's our policy was only to accept Jews who had converted to Christianity.

Before that there were the anti Jewish pogroms in Limerick in 1904, caused by the anti-Semitic editorial policies of the Limerick Leader and an inflammatory sermon by a Redemptorist priest called Fr John Creagh. He said "The Jews were once chosen by God. But they rejected Christ, they crucified Him. They called down the curse of His precious blood on their heads . . . They were scattered over the earth after the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and they bore away with them an unquenchable hatred for the name of This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ and his followers . . . The Jews came to Limerick apparently the most miserable tribe imaginable, with want on their faces, and now they have enriched themselves and can boast a very considerable house property in the city. Their rags have been exchanged for silk . . . How do the Jews manage to make their money? Some of you may know their methods better than I do, but it is still my duty to expose these methods. They go about as peddlers from door to door, pretending to offer articles at very cheap prices, but in reality charging several times more than in the shops . . . They forced themselves and their goods upon the people and the people are blind to their tricks . . ."
The resulting attacks on Jewish men women and children were shocking. Fr. Creagh doubled down and called for a Boycott and the Limerick Leader became even more anti-Semitic. The only political figures to denounce the attacks were John Redmond and Michael Davitt.
The attacks worsened over the following months. When they became aware of the severity of the attacks and the hatred preached by their fellow servant of God the Confederation of Bishops did what you'd expect and supported him wholeheartedly; ‘We tender to Fr Creagh our very best wishes on his recent lectures on the ways and means of Jewish trading and at this meeting representing 6,000 members of the Confraternity we express our full confidence in his views’.
By the end of 1903 the number of Jewish families in Limerick has dropped from 35 to 6.

The support of terrorism by SF and the left in this country is born of an ethno-nationalism that is deeply disturbing and their reaction to the terrorist attacks by Hamas flows from that.

There are strong echoes of the mod in the racist protests against immigrants we are seeing here now.
 
He's previously called for a boycott on Israel.
Is that antisemitic in itself? From what I can see, he has been critical of the Government of Israel but has never been critical of Jewish/Israeli people. If you Google him, he has regularly criticised antisemitism and talks about the horrors of the Holocaust.
He attended a vigil after the death of the terrorist Yasser Arafat.
Arafat the Nobel Peace Prize winner who acknowledged Israel as a nation state and sought a 2-state solution? I thought his image was rehabilitated.

I would say it is worse that Higgins met Mahmoud Abbas but is that grounds for calling him an antisemite?
He objected to Hamas being labelled as terrorists and he's shared a platform with Hezbollah and has a long history of anti-Semitism cloaked behind a thin veneer of anti-Israelism.
That website is very critical of him but one of their examples is YouTube clip of him stating that Palestinians have rights. How is that antisemitic?

I agree that sharing the platform with Moussawi would have been wrong and I remember some criticism of it at the time. I still don't think that is enough for the strong claims above.
 
Is that antisemitic in itself? From what I can see, he has been critical of the Government of Israel but has never been critical of Jewish/Israeli people. If you Google him, he has regularly criticised antisemitism and talks about the horrors of the Holocaust.
He regularly talks about what happened during the second world war. He's quite enough about what's happened since.
His criticism of the conflict is extremely one sided. His opposition to Hamas being caller terrorists and his utter lack of criticism of their mass murder of their political opposition before, during and after the election which Higgins claims they won legitimately is noteworthy.

Arafat the Nobel Peace Prize winner who acknowledged Israel as a nation state and sought a 2-state solution? I thought his image was rehabilitated.
Arafat who stole billions from his own people and kept hundreds of millions of it for himself and his wife. That Arafat? I must have missed Mackey-D's criticism of that.
I would say it is worse that Higgins met Mahmoud Abbas but is that grounds for calling him an antisemite?


That website is very critical of him but one of their examples is YouTube clip of him stating that Palestinians have rights. How is that antisemitic?

I agree that sharing the platform with Moussawi would have been wrong and I remember some criticism of it at the time. I still don't think that is enough for the strong claims above.
There is a large body of quoted and clips of Higgins criticising Israel. There are very few of him criticising Hamas. He's a smart man but maybe he'll issue another letter in his wife's name to express his true feelings on the matter.
 
He regularly talks about what happened during the second world war. He's quite enough about what's happened since.
His criticism of the conflict is extremely one sided. His opposition to Hamas being caller terrorists and his utter lack of criticism of their mass murder of their political opposition before, during and after the election which Higgins claims they won legitimately is noteworthy.


Arafat who stole billions from his own people and kept hundreds of millions of it for himself and his wife. That Arafat? I must have missed Mackey-D's criticism of that.

There is a large body of quoted and clips of Higgins criticising Israel. There are very few of him criticising Hamas. He's a smart man but maybe he'll issue another letter in his wife's name to express his true feelings on the matter.
The blind spot, selectiveness is anti "something". In some cases I'm not sure if it is directly anti-semitic. I think they hate Israel because it disabuses so many of their 'notions' about the world, the West and the rest.
 
It would be interesting to know how Hamas managed to stockpile so many sophisticated missiles and other weapons into a blockaded enclave, and how paid for ?
 
It would be interesting to know how Hamas managed to stockpile so many sophisticated missiles and other weapons into a blockaded enclave, and how paid for ?
There's a huge network of underground tunnels apparently. Israel is trying to hit these with possibly bunker buster type bombs.

The weaponry would be smuggled through those. Iran is suspected as the ultimate paymaster.
 
It would be interesting to know how Hamas managed to stockpile so many sophisticated missiles and other weapons into a blockaded enclave, and how paid for ?
Paying for it was easy, that was Iran and possibly indirectly Russia.
 
This morning on Moaning Ireland the usual anti-Israeli rhetoric was in full flow. Despite the fact that the EU and the Irish State recognises Hamas as terrorists, and despite their actions in recent weeks and since they were founded, RTE will still not refer to them as terrorists. To RTE the act of murdering a baby, gang raping a young woman or beheading an unarmed civilian makes you a 'fighter'.
 
The unfortunate thing is that too many innocent people are going to suffer and be killed on both sides .
There will be no winners or losers .
 
The reality of the situation is all we have over there is two terrorist organisations fighting each other. Hamas and the Israeli government.
What hamas did is appalling and what the Israeli government is doing is even more appalling. What’s worse is it is backed by America and the Uk and others so much for western democracy. Can America or the UK have any moral high ground with Ukraine?
It’s appalling what is going on and allowed to go on in the world today.
 
The reality of the situation is all we have over there is two terrorist organisations fighting each other. Hamas and the Israeli government.
Nonsense.
What hamas did is appalling and what the Israeli government is doing is even more appalling.
Even more appalling? Really?
What’s worse is it is backed by America and the Uk and others so much for western democracy.
Yes, Western Democracies standing up for a Western Democracy.
Can America or the UK have any moral high ground with Ukraine?
They can if they continue to support Israel. Putin is bad but he's nowhere near as bad as Hamas.
It’s appalling what is going on and allowed to go on in the world today.
That has always been the case.
 
Sad you can’t see that purple. Innocent people should not be killed by any group to justify anything. The Israeli government are worse than Hamas, why, because Hamas declares itself as such while the Israeli government declares itself as a government above the law. Both are wrong and totally unacceptable from either side.
 
Sad you can’t see that purple. Innocent people should not be killed by any group to justify anything.
So Ukraine shouldn't attack Russian held positions in case innocent people are killed?
The Allies should not have invaded France with Operation Overlord (D-Day), killing mor French civilians in the process than the Germans killed during the same period?
The Russians shouldn't have invaded Belarus two weeks before that with the much larger and more significant Operation Bagration?
The Chinese should not have fought the Japanese in Manchuria?
We should not have fought the British?
The Ugandans should not have supported the Tutsi led army that invaded Rwanda and stopped the Genocide?

All of the above caused massive numbers of civilian deaths.

The Israeli government are worse than Hamas, why, because Hamas declares itself as such while the Israeli government declares itself as a government above the law.
What on earth are you talking about? Hamas killed its political opponents at a rate that would make Putin blush. They imposed server version of Islamic law as they are Salafist and favour a strict interpretation of Sharia Law. They have imposed Taliban like controls on Women and driven out around half of Gaza's tiny Christian population.
Ask yourself if you'd rather be gay or a women in Israel or Gaza.
Both are wrong and totally unacceptable from either side.
Nonsense.
 
All are wrong to say one justifies another is rediculous. What have any of them achieved? They have been used as justification for wars in one way or another, and no killing of innocent humans is justifiable.
It’s a pity if you can’t see that
Ok so is your life more valuable than mine as you seem to be suggesting?
 
This morning on Moaning Ireland the usual anti-Israeli rhetoric was in full flow. Despite the fact that the EU and the Irish State recognises Hamas as terrorists, and despite their actions in recent weeks and since they were founded, RTE will still not refer to them as terrorists. To RTE the act of murdering a baby, gang raping a young woman or beheading an unarmed civilian makes you a 'fighter'.
In the interest of balance, Mary Robinson just on the News at One and it would be hard to disagree with anything she said. It's a truly awful situation for so many innocent people on both sides.
 
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All are wrong to say one justifies another is rediculous. What have any of them achieved? They have been used as justification for wars in one way or another, and no killing of innocent humans is justifiable.
It’s a pity if you can’t see that
Ok so is your life more valuable than mine as you seem to be suggesting?
What did the deaths of innocents in the liberation of Europe form the Nazis achieve?

If you have to ask that question, you have lost the argument, because your philosophy would have lost the world long ago to the Nazis, or Hamas death cults.
 
All are wrong to say one justifies another is rediculous.
Right so the Ukrainians should have just let the Russians take over. That is what you are saying.
What have any of them achieved?
The preservation of liberal democracy and the defeat of totalitarian extremism.
They have been used as justification for wars in one way or another, and no killing of innocent humans is justifiable.
No, they have been the unfortunate consequence of the defence of right against evil and oppression.
It’s a pity if you can’t see that
I disagree.
Ok so is your life more valuable than mine as you seem to be suggesting?
No, that's a completely different argument.
have you welcomed refugees into your house and sold your families possessions to support them or is your life more important than theirs?
 
The often unjustifiable, frequently illegal and sometime appalling actions of the current Israeli government and the extremist settlers in the illegally annexed areas of Gaza do not even come close to establishing a moral equivalence between them and Hamas.
 
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