Hamas attack on Israel

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Purple

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The shocking attacks on Israel by the fundamentalist Islamic terrorist group Hamas, and particularly their massacre of over 200 unarmed civilians at a music festival, should be condemned strongly and unequivocally by our political leaders, our Taoiseach and our President.

Given the previously generally weak response from Michael Martin and the openly anti semitic rhetoric from Mickey D I'm not holding my breath.
 
With all due respect Purple, your post is simple’whataboutery’.

Certainly the attack is horrific, it did not occur in isolation

Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is illegal

Israel’s ongoing expropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank is slow motion ethnic cleansing

Israel’s expansion of settlements is illegal and designed to change ‘facts on the ground’

The ongoing campaign of the settlers against the people of the West Bank is just state sponsored murder.

Israel’s blockade of Gaza is unconscionable. They have turned the homeplace of 2 million people into a prison.

Most of all what are the Palestinians to do. Hamas may be religious fanatics but the good guys have absolutely abandoned the Palestinians.

The Root of Violence Is Oppression. - JVP

We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org

Just for some context on the scale of the violence

1696858149659.jpeg
 
cremeegg said:
With all due respect Purple, your post is simple’whataboutery’.

Certainly the attack is horrific, it did not occur in isolation

Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is illegal

Israel’s ongoing expropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank is slow motion ethnic cleansing

Israel’s expansion of settlements is illegal and designed to change ‘facts on the ground’

The ongoing campaign of the settlers against the people of the West Bank is just state sponsored murder.

Israel’s blockade of Gaza is unconscionable. They have turned the homeplace of 2 million people into a prison.

Most of all what are the Palestinians to do. Hamas may be religious fanatics but the good guys have absolutely abandoned the Palestinians.

The Root of Violence Is Oppression. - JVP

We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org

Just for some context on the scale of the violence

View attachment 8015
Click to expand...

Everything you say may very well be (and is imo) true, but what does paragliding into a music festival and massacring hundreds of young civilians do? What does pulling women out of their homes, raping them and executing them in cold blood achieve? If anyone's post is whataboutery, it's yours.
 
cremeegg said:
With all due respect Purple, your post is simple’whataboutery’.

Certainly the attack is horrific, it did not occur in isolation

Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is illegal

Israel’s ongoing expropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank is slow motion ethnic cleansing

Israel’s expansion of settlements is illegal and designed to change ‘facts on the ground’

The ongoing campaign of the settlers against the people of the West Bank is just state sponsored murder.

Israel’s blockade of Gaza is unconscionable. They have turned the homeplace of 2 million people into a prison.

Most of all what are the Palestinians to do. Hamas may be religious fanatics but the good guys have absolutely abandoned the Palestinians.

The Root of Violence Is Oppression. - JVP

We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org

Just for some context on the scale of the violence

View attachment 8015
Click to expand...

That post is the definition of whataboutery. You didn't even condemn the killings. You basically said they were horrific but justified because..........
 
cremeegg said:
With all due respect Purple, your post is simple’whataboutery’.
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What whataboutery?
Mickey D has a long history of anti Semitism and Ireland is generally recognised as one of the most anti Semitic countries in Europe.
cremeegg said:
Certainly the attack is horrific, it did not occur in isolation
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Whataboutery other attacks are you referring to?
cremeegg said:
Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is illegal
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It is, but it is necessary for the protection of Israel, a fact that is now recognised by many of its neighbours.
cremeegg said:
Israel’s ongoing expropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank is slow motion ethnic cleansing
Click to expand...
Or reclaiming their historical lands from Planters like we did post Independence when we reduced the Protestant population of our country by over 70%.
cremeegg said:
Israel’s expansion of settlements is illegal and designed to change ‘facts on the ground’
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It is. It is wrong and should be condemned.
cremeegg said:
The ongoing campaign of the settlers against the people of the West Bank is just state sponsored murder.
Click to expand...
Hyperbole.
cremeegg said:
Israel’s blockade of Gaza is unconscionable. They have turned the homeplace of 2 million people into a prison.
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Except that there is a large land border with Egypt so it's a prison where the Israelis only control 3 of the four walls.
When they opened the border Hamas keep trying to kill them. The West Bank under Hamas is akin to Syria under ISIS.
cremeegg said:
Most of all what are the Palestinians to do.
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Oppose the terrorists and murderers that run their country/state.
cremeegg said:
Hamas may be religious fanatics but the good guys have absolutely abandoned the Palestinians.
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No, Hamas killed the good guys or drove them into exile (just like they did to LGBT people and other minorities).

cremeegg said:

The Root of Violence Is Oppression. - JVP

We grieve the lives of those already lost and remain committed to a future where every life is precious, and all people live in freedom and safety.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org

Just for some context on the scale of the violence

View attachment 8015
Click to expand...
I don't put too much store in fundamentalists of any hue and expressly anti-Zionist ultra orthodox Jews are as crazy as they come so their website is as good for context on this topic as a creationists' is for what happened to the Dinosaurs.
 
I think it would be very presumptuous of me to pontificate about something like the Israeli/Hamas conflict. So I judge them by their supporters. We have the US/UK/EU on the Israeli side and Iran/Hezbollah/Sinn Féin supporting Hamas. It makes my decision easy.
 
Why do we have to pick sides? The whole thing is desperately sad, horrendous and tragic and thousands of innocent people are being murdered. Politics has utterly failed in that region but quite why we over here have to argue over which side is at fault (or rather more at fault than the other) I don't understand. They're both behaving with complete disregard for civilians as far as I can see.
 
Ceist Beag said:
Why do we have to pick sides? The whole thing is desperately sad, horrendous and tragic and thousands of innocent people are being murdered. Politics has utterly failed in that region but quite why we over here have to argue over which side is at fault (or rather more at fault than the other) I don't understand. They're both behaving with complete disregard for civilians as far as I can see.
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I look at a conflict between a democratic state with a free press and a constitution that is upheld by a supreme court which respects the rights of those who oppose it using peaceful means and the other side which is run by fundamentalist terrorists which kills their internal political opponents and those who don't conform to their brand of religion.

Then I pick a side.

There was a political solution, it was the two state solution with Israel and the Palestinian Authority but Hamas and their fellow travellers scuppered it. All the blood since then is on their hands.
 
I have a dream. Israelies and Palestinians are living peacefully and prosperously in a two state framework. Is everybody happy? You bet Hamas and Iran are hopping mad and vowed to destroy it.
 
Firefly said:
More like, Most of all what are the Palestinians not to do. Exactly what they did on Saturday.
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Well Purple described what happened on Saturday as 'shocking', and I described it as 'horrific'.

None of that addresses what the Palestinians should do about Israel's illegal occupation of their land.
 
cremeegg said:
Israel’s ongoing expropriation of Palestinian land in the West Bank is slow motion ethnic cleansing
Click to expand...

Purple said:
Or reclaiming their historical lands from Planters like we did post Independence when we reduced the Protestant population of our country by over 70%.
Click to expand...

If you think the decline in the Irish protestant population since independence can reasonable be described as 'ethnic cleansing' fair enough, I won't try to argue with you on the fact. I am sure your knowledge is every bit as good as mine, but I must say your interpretation of those facts seems unreasonable.



cremeegg said:
The ongoing campaign of the settlers against the people of the West Bank is just state sponsored murder.
Click to expand...

Purple said:
Hyperbole.
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I really don't think so.
 
cremeegg said:
If you think the decline in the Irish protestant population since independence can reasonable be described as 'ethnic cleansing' fair enough, I won't try to argue with you on the fact. I am sure your knowledge is every bit as good as mine, but I must say your interpretation of those facts seems unreasonable.
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It’s equally inaccurate and unreasonable to describe either as ethnic cleansing.
cremeegg said:
I really don't think so.
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cremeegg said:
Well Purple described what happened on Saturday as 'shocking', and I described it as 'horrific'.

None of that addresses what the Palestinians should do about Israel's illegal occupation of their land.
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There’s already a solution. It was agreed and implemented by the Israeli and Palestinian governments. Then a terrorist organisation called Hamas took power in Gaza and threw their own people into the mincing machine because all they care about is destroying Israel and they’ll kill as many of their own as they want to do it.
 
The interview with an Israeli Army spokesperson on Morning Ireland this morning was absolutely sickening.
The IDF Lieutenant showed great restraint and professionalism in her response to an appalling series of questions and accusations.
 
Agree with you there Purple, the difference in tone and questions between that interview and the later one with the Palestinian activist was shocking and unprofessional. Here is the https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22306747/ (latter interview), where the activist was allowed to make some ridiculous claims unchallenged.
 
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The details of the attacks are becoming even more gruesome, if that is even possible. How anyone can defend the barbaric carry-on of Hamas is beyond me. They actually make the Provos look like angels. Scary to think that there are so many Irish people excusing the attacks. We must be the most anti-Semitic country in the West.
 
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