Go Safe Camera: got photo but its impossible to determine whos driving.

C

CharlieR

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Our car has been issued with a speeding fine, we could not confirm who was driving the car and asked for copy of the photo.

Photo came out and you cannot see anything. had been raining, headlights on and you cannot see anything inside the car.

Spoke to the department and they said that the owner of the vehicle has to take the points and it is not there responsibility to prove who was driving the car.

From UK perspective as they have been there for longer the police had to prove who was driving.

Help please.
 
What sort of help Charlie? There is no dispute that it was your car so why should the dept/gardai have to prove who was driving it? That is for the owner of the car to either accept responsibility personally or get whoever was driving their car to accept responsibility. If the owner cannot remember who was driving the car at that particular time and place then they must accept responsibility as far as I'm concerned. How long ago was this and how hard can it be for the owner to remember who was driving it?
 
Given that you know the date, time, place and the fact is was raining I don't think it is credible that you cannot remember who was driving.
 
I did not know it was raining at that time, the photo shows the rain splash from the tyres, the date and time and place are on the photo and are stated in the offence notice.

As the speeding is a criminal offence, under European law the case of the owner being responsible for the crime and admitting guilt was proved wrong in the UK and cases were dismissed due to the police having to prove who was guilty.

The innocent until proven guilty rule applies in the UK and from memory it went to the European courts for ratification as the notices sent do not allow for a person to plead not guilty.

If anyone can constructively give advice on the position in the need for the Garda to prove who committed the offence.

It is our car and there could be a few people who could have been driving but as the offence took place nearly a month ago as the notice was sent out 14 days from the offence and was only received last Monday.

The help request is to do with where we stand with the position of identifying who was driving and the need for the garda to prove this.
 
If you are intending to challenge the fine on a technical point of law, you need proper legal advice. Outlining your arguments beforehand on the internet might not be the best way to approach such a challenge.
 
It is very probable that Irish law is at odds with European law in regards to automatically assuming the owner is driving.
 
T McGibney said:
If you are intending to challenge the fine on a technical point of law, you need proper legal advice. Outlining your arguments beforehand on the internet might not be the best way to approach such a challenge.
Click to expand...

It is not so much as challenging it as it is our car but neither of us can remember who was driving the car on that day.

I am waiting for my solicitor to come back to me but in comparison, if someone is accused of committing a crime the investigation would take place before the summons was issued.

This from what I can see has not yet occurred and they offer no way of saying we do not know who it is.

We still both have UK licenses so the points etc are not an issue
 
You can take your chances and go to court, arguing your defence based on UK law. You will then find out that Irish legislation was drawn up differnetly and that you, as the registered owner are responsible. If (when) you are found guilty, you have the option to appeal to a higher court, ultimately taking the case to Europe if you choose to (and can find someone willing to represent you).
Leo
 
i think you should challenge it all the way, at least you would know then if the law was flawed in this case.
 
CharlieR said:
As the speeding is a criminal offence, under European law the case of the owner being responsible for the crime and admitting guilt was proved wrong in the UK and cases were dismissed due to the police having to prove who was guilty.

The innocent until proven guilty rule applies in the UK and from memory it went to the European courts for ratification as the notices sent do not allow for a person to plead not guilty.
Click to expand...

I ofter wondered about this as well.
My son used to drive my car quite often and lets say a fine for speeding arrives in and I rememeber that he was driving on the day in question but he denies it, therefore, as far as we know, I have to absorb the fine and the points even though I'm innocent of all charges.

Seems ridiculous, doesn't it? But as the the old saying goes......."The law is an ass......."
 
What can they do if a registered owner showed up in court with a cast iron alibi? Not alot me thinks.
 
Think you need to update your Irish address on an EU one though.
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Can't be done. You can't put an irish address on a UK licence and the same for the other 25 EU states documents.
 
Ceist Beag said:
Not true. See this previous thread. On your case in the UK flossie, how long were you there? See this site where it states you were allowed to drive on an Irish license unless you were a UK resident for more than 3 years.
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Again no. The DVLA don't even know the law.
You can drive on a Irish licence in the UK for as long as it is valid.
 
Time said:
Can't be done. You can't put an irish address on a UK licence and the same for the other 25 EU states documents.
Click to expand...

Yep, when I moved to Ireland with a UK paper licence (i.e. that runs out when I'm 75) I was told to write my Irish address on the "change of address" section but not to send it to DVLA. I've been spot-checked a couple of times by the Garda now and they seem aware of the problem - i.e. that there is no way to change a UK paper licence to an Irish address.

As for the points I think what they do is create a "shadow" Irish driving licence and add the points to that.

SSE
 
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