Brendan Burgess
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No. it's not too late. George Lee will be on Frontline.
George Lee Resigns?
- Thread starter ney001
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How can people say they want Lee to start a new political party? He has 9 months experience, has little to show for his time and has bailed out at the first hurdle. Posters speak about having qualified people in power but Lee just shows that being qualified in your field is only a bit part in the whole makeup of a politician.
I don't think anyone can realisitcally expect to achieve their goals within 9 months of taking a position and if he felt he had to toe the line as Brendan says then he could have taken a maverick approach and taken a few risks. He was viewed as a coup by Fine Gael so they were hardly about to clamp down on him if he did push his own agenda to the fore.
He will play for sympathy, which he deserves if he simply was not up to the task, but I feel he didn't see it paning out in his favour and jumped to suit his own end rather than the needs of his country.
I don't think anyone can realisitcally expect to achieve their goals within 9 months of taking a position and if he felt he had to toe the line as Brendan says then he could have taken a maverick approach and taken a few risks. He was viewed as a coup by Fine Gael so they were hardly about to clamp down on him if he did push his own agenda to the fore.
He will play for sympathy, which he deserves if he simply was not up to the task, but I feel he didn't see it paning out in his favour and jumped to suit his own end rather than the needs of his country.
Brendan Burgess
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He was impressive on Frontline, but...
If someone tells me that they are unhappy in a new job, I tell them go to the boss and tell them so. Tell them why you feel undervalued and frustrated.
FG are saying that he produced no policies or suggestions. He may have felt a bit above the ordinary politicians.
He should have sat down with Bruton and Kenny and said, this is the role I would like to play. I want to be making policy.
Pat Kenny tonight clamped down on any discussion of policy. I wonder is there some major policy disagreement. For example, George supports the Budget or NAMA and this would make him completely out of place in Fine Gael.
Brendan
If someone tells me that they are unhappy in a new job, I tell them go to the boss and tell them so. Tell them why you feel undervalued and frustrated.
FG are saying that he produced no policies or suggestions. He may have felt a bit above the ordinary politicians.
He should have sat down with Bruton and Kenny and said, this is the role I would like to play. I want to be making policy.
Pat Kenny tonight clamped down on any discussion of policy. I wonder is there some major policy disagreement. For example, George supports the Budget or NAMA and this would make him completely out of place in Fine Gael.
Brendan
S
sunrock
Guest
George Hook is on after the frontline programme in Hook IN HAITI.
I am very disappointed in GEORGE LEE. HE comes across as a pathetic and petulant man.It is hard to believe his excuses for quitting politics.It is up to him to write his policy papers and present them to the media if he sees fit.
The FRONTLINE programme never explained what he would like to do differently than Bruton or Linehan. I doubt if he would recommend any painful solutions like making people work for their dole or huge pay cuts for well paid public servants like those in RTE.
O.K. EnDA is not the most brillant man but he is good at opposition and in upping the vote for his party. The political system is by nature full of politicians who are watching their seats more than the countrys problems but that is democracy. Mr Lee had a unique chance of making a difference but I am afraid he bottled it.
I'm depressed.
Like many celebrities, George seems to forget that:
And to make things worse, we will now have both George Lee and Charlie Bird back on our screens every night. Holy God is there no respite.
- I was delighted George Lee ran for the Dail
- I voted for George (honest)
- It was the only way I could be sure of not seeing his depressing reports on RTE every night
- Now I fear he will be back on RTE
Like many celebrities, George seems to forget that:
- He reported the news
- He did not make the news
- Just because he was on RTE every night (happy to be reporting on the misery of it all), did not put him above everybody else
- Katie Price is a "celebrity" but I would go to her for macro economic advice
And to make things worse, we will now have both George Lee and Charlie Bird back on our screens every night. Holy God is there no respite.
George Lee resigned from FG and resigned his seat. That's the honourable thing to do, he was elected on the FG ticket (even if people voted for him for other reasons).
How pathetic that Enda Kenny couldn't even hold on to a top vote getter like Lee who in addition had a great media presence. What does that say about Kenny and his leadership. FG have been handed the electors on a plate without doing a thing, a government that has brought Ireland to it's knees, corruption everywhere and still FG are in the opposition.
How pathetic that Enda Kenny couldn't even hold on to a top vote getter like Lee who in addition had a great media presence. What does that say about Kenny and his leadership. FG have been handed the electors on a plate without doing a thing, a government that has brought Ireland to it's knees, corruption everywhere and still FG are in the opposition.
Brendan Burgess
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Hi Conan
I have heard people whom I respect say this before. But I have never noticed anything smart about Richard Bruton. Is he not the same as all othe opposition TDs? Opposing what the government proposes? Has he produced some brilliant independent economic analysis which I have missed?
Couldn't agree more.
I think there's more to this. Even at the start it was obvious there would be resentment by his parachuting. Groups can be quite petty when they want to and I can absolutely believe his statements of isolation.
Overall I think there was a clash of Lee's expectations of his role and that of a TD in combination with what EK may have promised. All may have had little basis in reality.
The main thing for me is that this is actually a small story or at least, Lee's celebrity aside, just a TD resigning. While some aspects make it relatively unique, the time served and hype prior to the election, it's still a small but interesting story. Yet if EK doesn't handle this right it could escalate for him and he loses control. And given he could easily have nipped it all in the bud yesterday and didn't, suggests EK isn't going to handle this well at all.
All it would have needed was one small magnanimous response. Instead Cowen got in there first (hardly containing himself with laughter) and every FG representative came out with the same line criticising Lee. Whether he deserved it or not, it only fuels the media fire. Plus they seem to be under the delusion that every one of those votes was a swing from FF to FG and not from Brennan to Lee.
As it all went on last night I'd say there were two people who cracked open a bottle of the good whiskey: Cowen and Bruton.
I think it is because he comes across as knowing what he is talking about. Sometimes when politicians speak on matters like this they come across as simply repeating a brief that was handed to them (Brian Lenihan when he started). To be fair to FG, their last budget submission wasn't bad for an opposition party in that it was fairly realistic. Certainly made mince meat of the Labour Party's one in contrast. Having said that, I don't think he would make a good leader.
I agree to a certain degree but I think people are interested because here was a guy who rightly or wrongly felt he had something to offer in helping the main opposition party develop economic policies that would help Ireland get out of the mess that they are in and so decided to enter political life. I think the fact that 8 months later, he feels like he done nothing except being used as a PR exercise by the party speaks volumes for Irish politics. If you are going to be bringing in high profile candidates who FG claimed was brought in for his economic skills, then why would you not use him? I think Brendan is right. I think he got sick of being used because of his high profile to criticise the Government at every turn instead of offering constructive ideas.
I thought the best part of Frontline last night was the academics talking about system reform. It is badly needed.
Over the last 12-18 months you're right. Prior to that he was gaining a lot of respect. Essentially while things were still up in the air he was the only one coming out with some sensible suggestions, then as FF started to develop a plan, I think the FG line became an opportunist debasing of every government plan. Since then he's been held back in order to keep to the party line. I don't think Lee is on his own in not having much say in over all policy, the FG policy is building for an anti FF vote and this involves planning for a government with Labour which is impacting on what Bruton can say.
The comparisson with Lee is there, Bruton whether he likes it or not is sticking to the party line (without much conviction it has to be said) though from purely anecdotal accounts, he feels that this is perpetuating the "lack of effective opposition" view and that there should be some stronger, clearer economic policies and solutions at the front. Policies and solutions which perhaps should be pure FG and not watered down by Labour.
I don't disagree, it is a unique situation if only for the hype that surrounded the election. And it is a big story in the sense that it's all over the media and everyone is talking about it, but if you boil it down it's no more a major story than a footballer having an affair.
Aside from that, the point is that EK has to be accountable for brining in and losing Lee, but also for not managing the debacle yesterday. It's too late now for a simple statement, I just think of all the things that could have or would have spelled the end of EK's leadership, that there's a certain humour in that this minor issue could cause the end.
I really liked George, but he was elected to shake the place up and he patently failed to do that. Not only that but he didn't even try.
There was SO much he could have done in there, either as a FG TD or failing that, as an independent. If things were as bad as he said, he could have completely lambasted the political system and screamed for change in the Dail. We all would have supported him.
There was nothing stopping him putting forward his own ideas for policy even if it was contrary to his party's. With his public support he could have made life very difficult for the status quo in Dail Eireann.
If things were as bas as he said, he should have forced Fine Gael to kick him out of the party. Like they would have dared! Instead, he sat brooding in the background, said and did nothing, and spent his time thinking just about himself. After 9 months, 2 short years away from an election, without even trying a different approach he threw in the towel. I'm sorry but that is joke. It's also remarkable that he quit right before his leave of absence expired with RTE. Just enough time to take a holiday with the kids before running back to another waste of space, time and money that is RTE.
I did like him, and have no allegience to FG, but he really let himself and the people that voted for him down. And to be able to go back to his old job (or whatever role they create for him) along with a 15k lump sum is just another example of how in Ireland ordinary joe regularly gets his nose rubbed in it
There was SO much he could have done in there, either as a FG TD or failing that, as an independent. If things were as bad as he said, he could have completely lambasted the political system and screamed for change in the Dail. We all would have supported him.
There was nothing stopping him putting forward his own ideas for policy even if it was contrary to his party's. With his public support he could have made life very difficult for the status quo in Dail Eireann.
If things were as bas as he said, he should have forced Fine Gael to kick him out of the party. Like they would have dared! Instead, he sat brooding in the background, said and did nothing, and spent his time thinking just about himself. After 9 months, 2 short years away from an election, without even trying a different approach he threw in the towel. I'm sorry but that is joke. It's also remarkable that he quit right before his leave of absence expired with RTE. Just enough time to take a holiday with the kids before running back to another waste of space, time and money that is RTE.
I did like him, and have no allegience to FG, but he really let himself and the people that voted for him down. And to be able to go back to his old job (or whatever role they create for him) along with a 15k lump sum is just another example of how in Ireland ordinary joe regularly gets his nose rubbed in it
I think this is at the hub of it.
Lee himself said that Enda Kenny was shocked when he told him he was leaving. This suggests that he didn't offer sufficient notice of his intent or the circumstances that would required to change his mind. It seems to suggest that EK and others should inherently know what it takes to please him and duly ensure that these circumstances are ceated.
A resignation on grounds of principle should only follow fairly strenuous attempts to have one's principles respected. In this case, however, the nuclear option was chosen first without any apparent consideration of the alternatives.
S
sunrock
Guest
This explains why he left when he did. To go back to his cossetted job with RTE before his LEAVE OF ABSENCE EXPIRED WITH RTE. And what is this about a 15k lump sum.His concern about the state of the country and the unemployed ring very hollow after this revelation and at 160k salary even better than being a politician.I`d have more respect for him if he came straight out and said he decided he preferred the pampered life in RTE than being a politician dealing with all the constituents concerns.
I felt he was badly exposed in the VINCENT BROWNE show where he got more grilling from VIncent and a very realistic criticism from O REILLY the fg health spokesman and also the woman guest.He looked a bit shaken and his explanations were not credible....it seemed that he just couldn`t hack political life. Also once again there was no explanation as to what policies he would like to implement to sort out the economic problems of the country.FG are not in power and their role is to oppose. They are not going to be able to bring the government down by opposing so i don`t see what G LEE problem with this is .
G LEE says he is concerned about the countrys economic problems but when push came to shove we can see that his first concern was with his own financial security.
Marathon Man
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Lots of wagon circling in the media today....and on this forum.
George Lee entered the fray to try to change things when the country was (and still is) in the 'do-do'. It looks like he didn't like what he found on the inside, once he got in.
He's now left FG and, has stated his reasons for leaving, basically, as being unable to influence the party. Other than that, as far as I can see, he hasn't disparaged the party in any way...........yet there seems to be no shortage of party hacks and politicos who, it would appear, have nothing good to say about George.
The country is still in dire straits, the same lunatics are still running the asylum - and telling the rest of us that we've got to take 'horrible medicine' (because they're sick!).
I think George had - and still has - a lot of self-respect and integrity. Pity more of them don't.
As I write this, I'm listening to Richard Bruton saying that "George Lee never rang me with ideas" Is that how one influences FG? Ring each other??? I think that proves George's point.
I want the present government out - I think it's been one of the most incompetent in the history of the state - but I now think that FG have been torpedoed below the waterline - by themselves. They parachuted an asset into the party and then didn't mind it!
In conclusion, I think that FG has shown itself to be just the other crowd with a different name, but not able to step up to the mark.
FG Marks: Must try harder.
George Lee entered the fray to try to change things when the country was (and still is) in the 'do-do'. It looks like he didn't like what he found on the inside, once he got in.
He's now left FG and, has stated his reasons for leaving, basically, as being unable to influence the party. Other than that, as far as I can see, he hasn't disparaged the party in any way...........yet there seems to be no shortage of party hacks and politicos who, it would appear, have nothing good to say about George.
The country is still in dire straits, the same lunatics are still running the asylum - and telling the rest of us that we've got to take 'horrible medicine' (because they're sick!).
I think George had - and still has - a lot of self-respect and integrity. Pity more of them don't.
As I write this, I'm listening to Richard Bruton saying that "George Lee never rang me with ideas" Is that how one influences FG? Ring each other??? I think that proves George's point.
I want the present government out - I think it's been one of the most incompetent in the history of the state - but I now think that FG have been torpedoed below the waterline - by themselves. They parachuted an asset into the party and then didn't mind it!
In conclusion, I think that FG has shown itself to be just the other crowd with a different name, but not able to step up to the mark.
FG Marks: Must try harder.
I missed, but taped, the Late Late Show last Friday and watched George Hook's interview last night. Ryan asked him if he was ever approached by FG and he said he was. Asked why he didn't go into politics, he mentioned being used as a crowdpuller and not having any influence. Given that G lee has given these two responses and is said to have mulled on his decision during the last few days, perhaps the G Hook interview was the final straw..
After watching the Frontline this is my opinion on the matter:
Lee - for whatever reasons - didn't think it was up to him to make things happen. He expected people to come to him and tell him what to do or ask for his ideas. I find it peculiar that a man of his age and experience has this attitude about working world.
I also think he went into politics without realising what's involved, and he has a ginormous ego which couldn't handle being anything other than the top dog.
I have no problem with him leaving FG, but he should have stayed on as an Independent and made a lot of noise about what he sees as FF's & FG's economic failings.
Slightly unrelated, but once again Pat Kenny's lack of interviewing skills were on full display. When Lee was clearly rattled by the "someone asked for your input but you didn't participate" question, his pathetic answer "I don't know what he means by that" should have been challenged.
Lee - for whatever reasons - didn't think it was up to him to make things happen. He expected people to come to him and tell him what to do or ask for his ideas. I find it peculiar that a man of his age and experience has this attitude about working world.
I also think he went into politics without realising what's involved, and he has a ginormous ego which couldn't handle being anything other than the top dog.
I have no problem with him leaving FG, but he should have stayed on as an Independent and made a lot of noise about what he sees as FF's & FG's economic failings.
Slightly unrelated, but once again Pat Kenny's lack of interviewing skills were on full display. When Lee was clearly rattled by the "someone asked for your input but you didn't participate" question, his pathetic answer "I don't know what he means by that" should have been challenged.