Fuel Poverty

dubdub123 said:
One thing that I havent seen mentioned is how some of the households most at risk of poverty due to rising fuel costs are people being forced to use pre-pay energy and paying above the cost of billpay, i hear stories of people topping up meters and they are distraught at how much it has increased.
The increase in the cost of petrol/gas could crush the finances of some households. A few years back, i had no option but to drive 600km per week to get to/from work. Any additional increase at that time would have been catastrophic to my household.
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Very good point. Landlords should not be able to compel tenants to use those very expensive providers.
 
Purple said:
Very good point. Landlords should not be able to compel tenants to use those very expensive providers.
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Landlords don't and can't compel tenants on which provider to use. Tenants choose the prepay model so they can monitor and manage their usage.
 
Sophrosyne said:
You are correct @dubdub123, we must look at things in the round and not just the cost of domestic fuel.
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Yes, people can choose to reduce their domestic energy consumption much easier than they can reduce their cost of commuting to and from work. This is particularly the case in rural areas.
 
Purple said:
When my son was renting he was forced to use a pre-pay system.
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Your son had the right to pay to remove the prepay meter with the landlords consent and get a credit account from the energy supplier.

Why would a landlord care how a tenant pays for energy. It has nothing to do with the landlord as the relationship is between the tenant and the energy supplier.
 
PGF2016 said:
Wilful ignorance? Maybe read the post again. I said consider and promote alternatives first. How is that willfully ignorant?

And let's consider your first example. You may be ignorant to the fact that a large proportion of the staff of the Intel have been working from home for more than 2 years. And while that plant may not be in central Dublin it is well served by public transport.
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I know that the essential staff at Intel are not working from home, yes some of the staff can work from home but who fixes the faults at 3am in the morning not the guy WFH 9 to 5. There is a huge staff in that plant that need to drive there every day for work .

I mean there is a wilfull ignorane in government organisations like the esri who were lucky enough to all avail of WFH. They are wilfully ignorant of the reality of the Irish economy and their latest suggestions were based on utopian ideas not reality. Luckily enough the government seems to also have dismissed their latest report
 
The Horseman said:
Your son had the right to pay to remove the prepay meter with the landlords consent and get a credit account from the energy supplier.
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Yes, that, in effect, is a compulsion. The Landlord has pre-installed the most expensive option and the tenant is forced to use it unless they incur significant a extra cost. That makes using luxury items (such as tumble dryers ;)) even more expensive.
 
joe sod said:
who fixes the faults at 3am in the morning not the guy WFH 9 to 5
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Someone on site.
Or else someone at home from their laptop.
Or else someone in Malaysia or in Arizona. And those folks from abroad don't commute to the site by car.

joe sod said:
There is a huge staff in that plant that need to drive there every day for work .
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I get that. Which is why I said alternatives should be considered first if possible.

And of course not all of them need to drive every day. A lot of them choose to when alternatives are available.
 
Purple said:
Yes, that, in effect, is a compulsion. The Landlord has pre-installed the most expensive option and the tenant is forced to use it unless they incur significant a extra cost. That makes using luxury items (such as tumble dryers ;)) even more expensive.
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Indeed. There's a few landlords that insist on pre-pay meters so they don't get hit by unpaid electricity bills.
I would steer clear from those landlords or properties, but given the choice nowadays...
 
joe sod said:
I know that the essential staff at Intel are not working from home, yes some of the staff can work from home but who fixes the faults at 3am in the morning not the guy WFH 9 to 5. There is a huge staff in that plant that need to drive there every day for work .

I mean there is a wilfull ignorane in government organisations like the esri who were lucky enough to all avail of WFH. They are wilfully ignorant of the reality of the Irish economy and their latest suggestions were based on utopian ideas not reality. Luckily enough the government seems to also have dismissed their latest report
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Joe, Intel is a 24hr/7/365 operation and nothing is "left to chance " the staff covering 3am breakdowns are already on site from whenever their shift starts.

I know this because I know dozens who work there.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Joe, Intel is a 24hr/7/365 operation and nothing is "left to chance " the staff covering 3am breakdowns are already on site from whenever their shift starts.

I know this because I know dozens who work there.
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Not correct. There are many staff who work remotely who have the the ability to fix issues.
 
Purple said:
Yes, that, in effect, is a compulsion. The Landlord has pre-installed the most expensive option and the tenant is forced to use it unless they incur significant a extra cost. That makes using luxury items (such as tumble dryers ;)) even more expensive.
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Depending on the property I suspect either (a) a previous tenant had the meter installed or (b) the landlord felt he was responsible for a previous tenants unpaid energy bill.

I have never heard of any property built were a prepay meter was installed rather than a normal meter.

If it was cost efficient your son could have paid for the prepaid meter removal and enjoyed lower cost energy.

It would appear he did not.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
How can you pick up and use a tool remotely? Or open a door, mop a floor?
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You said the staff covering break downs were already on site. That is incorrect. It's a massively automated operation and there are support staff on site but also at home and overseas reacting to issues at all hours. That is a fact. Not all fixes require a mop or an on site presence.
 
The Horseman said:
Depending on the property I suspect either (a) a previous tenant had the meter installed or (b) the landlord felt he was responsible for a previous tenants unpaid energy bill.
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Probably, but the next tenant was still left with a more expensive option in situ.
The Horseman said:
I have never heard of any property built were a prepay meter was installed rather than a normal meter.
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Either have I.
The Horseman said:
If it was cost efficient your son could have paid for the prepaid meter removal and enjoyed lower cost energy.

It would appear he did not.
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Yes, because that required a larger up-front cost for the tenant. In effect the cost of the landlords relationship with the previous tenant falls on the next tenant. That shouldn't be the case.
 
PGF2016 said:
You said the staff covering break downs were already on site. That is incorrect. It's a massively automated operation and there are support staff on site but also at home and overseas reacting to issues at all hours. That is a fact. Not all fixes require a mop or an on site presence.
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Another side argument gets legs...
The employees who are required to be on site have no choice but to be on site and so have to commute. The CSO and other State employees who can work from home see things from their own perspective. That's the point that was being made.

With the right IT set-up many diagnostic decisions in healthcare can be made remotely. An MRI or a X-ray can be read from home but there still needs to be doctors on site to treat the patient.
 
PGF2016 said:
Someone on site.
Or else someone at home from their laptop.
Or else someone in Malaysia or in Arizona. And those folks from abroad don't commute to the site by car.
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I'm afraid you don't know, Intel and many pharma plants are big industrial complexes ,many things can go wrong , chemical leaks ,pumps stopping, the guy on his laptop from Malaysia can make mistakes that have to be rectified immediately by guys on site at 3am.
Yes you can switch on and off a pump at 3am but you can't fix downstream problems that result from this. Therefore these plants would always have critical processes controlled by guys on the ground never remotely. These people are not peripheral or inconsequential they are core workers.

Those guys don't get to their jobs on the 46a bus at 1am because no such service exists
 
Purple said:
Probably, but the next tenant was still left with a more expensive option in situ.

Either have I.

Yes, because that required a larger up-front cost for the tenant. In effect the cost of the landlords relationship with the previous tenant falls on the next tenant. That shouldn't be the case.
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Yeah but removing the prepaid meter could have saved your son in the long term. Your son rented the property as it was.

Why when the lease was been agreed did your Son not mention the issue and let the landlord decide if he wished to proceed with the lease.
 
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