Forced to remove satellite dish?

[Gabriel]

Just a reminder to the likes of Gabriel, a management company is a collection of the residents who look after everyones interest.

I live in a complex run by a management company so I know what it is.

I am a director on my management company and find the attutide of a lot of the others to be verging on the fascist.

My view on most of them as well to be honest. They are usually an appointed body set up by the developers. As is the case in my own circumstances.

Isn't it funny that in a complex where there are both houses, apartments and duplexs literally side by side, if you live in a house you can stick a dirty big dish on the front of your house, but not so in a duplex or apt???

For all those on their high horses about communal living...first up - lighten up a little. I'd personally view these types of rules as guielines and no more. The key to communal living is finding solutions to problems...not imposing draconion rules. If everyone starts getting a sky dish and the place looks unsightly then it should be up to the management company to look at a communal dish!!

And in relation to what makes a good neighbour...as someone who lives in a high density area, I'm far more concerned with people who won't fix dodgy sensors for their house and car alarms. Or neighbours with children who scream with all their windows and doors open and think this is acceptable. Maybe instead of imposing silly rules about how the place looks people should be more worried about actually being neighbourly and thinking about the noise levels they contribute to the neighbourhood?

Ok...I've gone off topic now To the OP, I reiterate, don't pay attention to the nonsense surrounding this issue. Stand your ground and get lippy with the management company. They are not a dictatorship and you'll more than likely find that standing up to them will work for you.

 

[Thrifty1]

I'd personally view these types of rules as guielines and no more

They are not guidelines they are rules,and thank God for them. I live in a complex also and if everybody was allowed to do what they wanted the place would be a disgrace.

Satellite dishes are unsightly - end of story, as is clothes drying on the balcony. Its not a matter of lighening up, its a matter of keeping the complex to a certain standard.

They are not silly rules they are necessary and are for the good of everyone living there.

Would you like it if you were selling your apt in a few years and potential buyers were subjected to a sea of dishes and clothes on every balcony?

 

[Gabriel]

Would you like it if you were selling your apt in a few years and potential buyers were subjected to a sea of dishes and clothes on every balcony?

This is a myth though isn't it? A worst case scenario really.

Like I said I live in a high density complex which is an even mix of houses, duplexes and apartments all side by side. There are a number of each of these units that have dishes. Yet...the sky (excuse the pun) is not awash with satellite dishes. We are not overcome with the things!! Does every house have a satellite dish? No. If you're living in an apartment and the three houses next to you have a dish does this look unsightly? No.

It's not the black and white issue you're painting it with. In my own case I have an alternative (NTL). If people do not have tht viable alternative then it's a rule which needs to be broken! There...I've said it...rules are there to be broken sometimes!

 

[Carpenter]

I am familiar with one large apartment complex and the rules regarding satellite dishes are enforced very rigidly and without exception. There are other problems associated with sat. dishes (not just their unsightliness), in one case I know of a dish was affixed to the built structure and a cable was affixed to an adjoining roof creating the potential for damage to the roof or a serious fall for the individual concerned. Most contracts for exclusive TV installation usually involve quite a substantial capital saving for a developer as the appointed supplier supplies and fits the required infrastructrue, thus ensuring that their service is the only one that is available. In another scheme that I know of a relaxation of the rules was secured by residents who wanted to use clthes airers, which were put away after a certain time.

 

[wolfspeed]

I can't say I agree with the satellite dishes are unsightly argument. I think that lots of people hear an argument and repeat it, without really thinking about it a whole lot. Where does it end? What about a clapped out car? Is that unsightly?

I know that there is a need for some form of rules for communal living, but surely the developers need to be put under a bit more pressure to come up with solutions for prospective tennants.

Seems to me that the simplest solution is arrived at from the point of view of the developer. If a service company like NTL then knows there are no other options for the residents of a particular complex, maybe they don't give the same level of service as a customer who has the option of switching?

 

[galwaytt]

I too have a house in a develpment with a mgmt company.......

First, the management company are YOUR customer, not the other way around. If the residents ain't happy - change the company. Not happy with the rules - change the rules, too.

KalEl - I don't know what planet your on, but who said it's leased? If it's his property it's his. Indeed, even if it's leased, legally it's his while he's paying for it. The management company cannot enter your property or interfere with your property, or else you can sue them for both trespass and malicious damage. They can ask you all they like to remove the dish, but only you can give permission to touch it. No permission, no touchy-touchy.

OP - write - and phone, but definately write (it's the only record of note..), and advise them that they are prohibited from entering or interfering with your property without your written express permission, under pain of litigation. You might also advise them that if they persist in their manner, you will see to have their contract put out to tender for competitive bids.

 

[CCOVICH]

First, the management company are YOUR customer, not the other way around. If the residents ain't happy - change the company. Not happy with the rules - change the rules, too.

First, it's the agent who works for the company. Only the company can change the agent. Who controls the company is a different story. Changing the rules may not be a straighforward as it appears.

OP - write - and phone, but definately write (it's the only record of note..), and advise them that they are prohibited from entering or interfering with your property without your written express permission, under pain of litigation.

Ah but is the balcony your property? I know that in many cases, the balcony is not owned by the apartment owner-it forms part of the common area. Cherry pickers are used to remove dishes, so there may be no case of tresspass etc.

 

[KalEl]

I live in a complex run by a management company so I know what it is.

Are you sure you know what it is-the management company as distinct from the management agent?

One satellite dish in itself is not unsightly...but a sea of them across a complex of apartments looks vile, real Ballymun in the sun stuff.
I think some apartment dwellers don't realise they don't actually own the outside walls.

The OP should do the decent thing, take down the dish and have some respect from his neighbours. We had similar problems in our complex which were resolved thankfully...usually it was tenants rather than owner occupiers who tend to have more respect for others.
As for those posters saying rules are there to be broken, or that the rules are merely guidelines...shocking

 

[KalEl]

First, the management company are YOUR customer, not the other way around. If the residents ain't happy - change the company. Not happy with the rules - change the rules, too.

KalEl - I don't know what planet your on, but who said it's leased? If it's his property it's his. Indeed, even if it's leased, legally it's his while he's paying for it. The management company cannot enter your property or interfere with your property, or else you can sue them for both trespass and malicious damage. They can ask you all they like to remove the dish, but only you can give permission to touch it. No permission, no touchy-touchy.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
Even when you own you're apartment, legally it's a lease. That's why the OP spoke about being in breach of his lease. You don't own anything outside of your apartment...so putting a satellite dish on the outside wall is technically damage to communal property.
Similarly, a management agent is a property management company hired by the management company (i.e. the residents) to manage the complex for a fee.
By the way, KalEl is from the planet Krypton...

 

[Gabriel]

As for those posters saying rules are there to be broken, or that the rules are merely guidelines...shocking

Seriously...shocking???

We're not all sheep y'know

Do the decent thing? I think you're missing the point by a mile. You're still dealing in stereotypes..."a sea of them across a complex of apartments looks vile". Where is this...besides Ballymun? Does the OP's complex have this problem? If it doesn't then where is the unsightliness?

Just because someone makes a rule doesn't make it right!

Life is not always about sticking rigidly to the rules y'know. Communal living certainly isn't about sticking rigidly to the rules. Some people are so petty sometimes about very minor issues.

 

[galwaytt]

The OP should do the decent thing, take down the dish and have some respect from his neighbours.

The OP didn't mention anythiing about his neighbours, except to say a lot of them also had dishes, so it isn't necessarily his neighbours who're the problem. In fact, the mgt agent/company should do the decent thing and approach the residents on the issue - call an EGM if necessary - rather doing, as I suspect, taking every opportunity to attempt to extract the (removal) fee. This is akin to the old speed camera debate...........

And as long as the agent OR company are sending you an annual bill, they are and continue to be, your customer, not the other way 'round. Which means that yes, absolutely some/all of the above can be changed, you just have to get it on the agenda of the AGM or indeed an EGM, and get it done so.

By virtue of the fact that a person owns an apartment, he can rightly assert his claim to influence what happens to that property in common (walls/halls/stairs). Including attaching dishes. The management agent or company have no legal tenancy on anything related to the building itself, whatsoever.

 

[KalEl]

By virtue of the fact that a person owns an apartment, he can rightly assert his claim to influence what happens to that property in common (walls/halls/stairs). Including attaching dishes. The management agent or company have no legal tenancy on anything related to the building itself, whatsoever.

Read some of my earlier posts regarding the distinction between management companies and management agents. Also regarding leases and communal areas.
I'm sorry, but you are just spoofing about something you seem to know little about.

 

[Thrifty1]

By virtue of the fact that a person owns an apartment, he can rightly assert his claim to influence what happens to that property in common (walls/halls/stairs). Including attaching dishes. The management agent or company have no legal tenancy on anything related to the building itself, whatsoever.

Please take KalEl's advise - management agent are well within their right to insisit the dish is removed.

If you purchase the apt you have a leasehold not a freehold, and you cannot "own" the common areas, which as has been previously stated includes the outside walls.

 

[Gabriel]

Surely, at this point in proceedings, the best argument put forward has been that the management agent, rather than enforcing a rule (which many see as nonsense within certain context) should try and find a viable solution.

I own a duplex so know the "rules" regarding the walls (which I share with my downstairs neighbour) but that doesn't stop many people from hanging baskets of flowers or indeed satellite dishes out of said walls. Our own management agent seems to have no great issue with this...ie they do not blindly enforce the rule, as they do not see much of it as "an eyesore".

Those bleating on about the rules might do well to think about 'the rules' in context with reality, rather than harping on about seas of apartments with satellite dishes hanging off every one.

 

[CCOVICH]

So, has anyone made a successful challenge?

And surely solicitors should advise you of this when you sign the leasehold agreement? Do they? I can't recall, but I don't think that the 'grey area' part was mentioned by my solicitor.

Perhaps mf1, MOB or Vanilla could give their opinion?

 

[Olly64]

what i do find interesting and seems to be missed is that the appartment was perewired for chorus and the buyers don't seem to be given a choice

i was in an apartment and the complex was wired for chourus and dishes were not allowed, then a few days after moving in a chourus rep actually called in to connect me, i thought nothing of it but reading this thread it seems there is something going on between chourus and apartment complexes that does seem illegal

 

[Gabriel]

So, has anyone made a successful challenge?

And surely solicitors should advise you of this when you sign the leasehold agreement? Do they? I can't recall, but I don't think that the 'grey area' part was mentioned by my solicitor.

Perhaps mf1, MOB or Vanilla could give their opinion?

You'll note that I edited my last response after posting it...I don't know enough to justifiably talk about the grey areas of the law in this regard so felt it better to change what I'd said. Actually...they do mention it alright, or at least they did in my case.

The rule in and of itself isn't wrong. It might stop someone from nailing a 60 foot picture of themselves to the side of their apartment for instance The implementation and policing of the rule is the problem here.

 

[CCOVICH]

What is a viable solution? Assuming that

(a) there is nothing illegal about exclusive agreements between developers and cable providers (I have yet to hear otherwise from an informed source);
(b) the developer (in all likelyhood) has de facto control of the management company (even if owners have representation on same) and will not renege on any agreement they have signed with the cable provider (we were told that once the management company was handed over we could get whatever cable provider we wanted, but I would be dubious on this point if there is a contract in place)
(c) in many cases, a Sky dish can be installed without looking like an eyesore. However, what happens when the orinetation of the apartments/duplex etc. is such that dishes have to be bolted to the front wall?
(d) what about those who do believe that dishes are an eyesore and wish to see the rules that everyone signed up to enforced? Maybe those 'bleating' here actually agree with such rules? As is their right I would have thought. What if they are the majority in the development?

Anyway, it's a discussion that's been had before. The substative issue for the OP is whether or not the management company/agent has the right to remove the dish. I have yet to hear conclusively that (legally) they can't do this.

 

[galwaytt]

.. management agent are well within their right to insisit the dish is removed.

They are within their right to ask. You are within your right to challenge it, and if necessary, take steps to have the rules changed. And being property in common, you still have an input into it's use/not. There is no other 'ruling' party with irrevocable rights on the issue.

As for taking KalEl's advice, I think not. I've owned a 3 storey townhouse for 6+ years, in a similar scenario, so I've run the gauntlet, worn the T-shirt, seen the video........and my dish is still there and cannot be touched. My opinion is informed by on the ground experience, and what can be done to effect the desire result. KalEl is offering platitudes based on appealing to 'sensibilities'. Time for others to respect the sensibilities of others in the same position as the OP, really.

CCOVICH, re solrs - not in my experience, initially, but maybe with the proliferation in recent years, the process must be informed by now.........

Gabriel - you're right. Carrot, not stick should be the way to go.

 

[Lipstick69]

This is covered somewhat by the Communications (Regulation) Act 2002 and the recent amendment bill passed by the Dail, and the Access Regulations of 2003.

Normally, eircom have USO obligations to provide telephone service. There are no similar obligations for cable as some years ago the exclusivity part of their licences were removed. However developers can and do have commercial contracts with other companies (Smart Telecom, Magnet, Chorus etc.).

Should another operator wish to provide service the company that has the contract has certain obligations to negotiate. In the event of a dispute ComReg is now (as soon as the bill is enacted) given some kind of compliance/ infrastructure sharing type power.