Finland's Unorthodox Education System

[ajapale]

http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-education-school-2011-12?op=1

Since it implemented huge education reforms 40 years ago, Finland's school system has consistently come at the top for the international rankings for education systems.

So how do they do it?
It's simple — by going against the evaluation-driven, centralized model that much of the Western world uses.

#2 They rarely take exams or do homework until they are well into their teens.
#6 Teachers only spend 4 hours a day in the classroom, and take 2 hours a week for "professional development".
#8 The average starting salary for a Finnish teacher was $29,000 in 2008

 

[RMCF]

http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-education-school-2011-12?op=1
#6 Teachers only spend 4 hours a day in the classroom, and take 2 hours a week for "professional development".

Sorry but can't see this one happening in Ireland.

There has been real anti-teacher sentiment in this country for a long time. Most non-teachers think that they work short hours, get home at 3pm each day and have long holidays.

I can imagine the uproar if they tried to implement Point#6 here.

 

[blueband]

Sorry but can't see this one happening in Ireland.

There has been real anti-teacher sentiment in this country for a long time. Most non-teachers think that they work short hours, get home at 3pm each day and have long holidays.

I can imagine the uproar if they tried to implement Point#6 here.

compaired to the hours most people work, teaching is an overpaid part time job.

 

[oldnick]

I think everyone in Ireland would be happy for Irish teachers to work the same hours and earn the same salary as Finnish teachers -as long as they achieved the same results as their Finnish counterparts.

The present horrible exam driven, rote learning, stress inducing and failed Irish educational system is not , of course, the fault of Irish teachers but the system itself.

 

[Purple]

I think everyone in Ireland would be happy for Irish teachers to work the same hours and earn the same salary as Finnish teachers -as long as they achieved the same results as their Finnish counterparts.

The present horrible exam driven, rote learning, stress inducing and failed Irish educational system is not , of course, the fault of Irish teachers but the system itself.

+1 to that.

 

[SarahMc]

I like no. 2. Homework is a nonsense, a P. R. exercise to keep parents happy. It serves no useful purpose.

 

[Purple]

I think everyone in Ireland would be happy for Irish teachers to work the same hours and earn the same salary as Finnish teachers

I don't think Irish teachers would like that idea since they earn far more than Finnish teachers; 50% more at the top of their scale. [broken link removed]
According to this, using purchasing power parity, we have the 6th best paid teachers in the world.

 

[Deiseblue]

I don't think Irish teachers would like that idea since they earn far more than Finnish teachers; 50% more at the top of their scale. [broken link removed]
According to this, using purchasing power parity, we have the 6th best paid teachers in the world.

At least those figures put paid to the myth that Ireland has the best paid teachers in the OECD.

Tellingly the figures for Ireland are garnered from the Dept. of Education salary agreement figures for 2008/2009 so the latest pay cut nor perhaps the previous pay cut / pension levy have been factored in.

Combined with the pay freeze it is reasonable to assume that Ireland has fallen significantly further down the league table .

 

[Purple]

When we have the 6th best education system and outputs in the OECD then Irish teachers will justify their existing salaries.

 

[blueband]

with you on that one purple.

 

[Deiseblue]

When we have the 6th best education system and outputs in the OECD then Irish teachers will justify their existing salaries.

Couldn't agree more.

I note that you + 1'd the previous post by Oldnick that suggested that the comparative failure of our education process is systemic rather than the fault of teachers - a big + 1 to that from me.

When the system is changed & Minister Quinn is doing sterling work in that regard then I would hope that teachers will then ensure that we climb the league table.

I firmly believe that given the outdated figures used in the source you quoted there is no way that we have the 6th highest paid teachers in the OECD - perhaps the next report will reflect that ?

 

[Purple]

When the system is changed & Minister Quinn is doing sterling work in that regard then I would hope that teachers will then ensure that we climb the league table.

I agree but the main obstacle that Minister Quinn faces is, of course, the teaching Unions.

 

[Deiseblue]

I agree but the main obstacle that Minister Quinn faces is, of course, the teaching Unions.

Systemic change is the purview of the Minister , Unions hopefully will have an input to such change but that is all - as can be seen by the proposed abolition of the Junior Cert - a seismic change I would have thought , all carried through without reference to the education partners !

Where such changes effect terms & conditions is of course a different matter & is a matter for negotiation & possibly arbitration by the Labour relations bodies - after all we don't want to see a further dimunition of such terms & conditions by arbitrary means - after all the Croke Park Agreement is still in force.

 

[Purple]

after all the Croke Park Agreement is still in force.

You're just trying to rise me

 

[ajapale]

I think it might be interesting to discuss the positive aspects of Finland's approach to Education and how we here in Ireland might be able to adapt some of their approaches.

Then again we could warm up the "same old same old" discussions we have had here over the last decade or so!

aj

 

[T McGibney]

I agree but the main obstacle that Minister Quinn faces is, of course, the teaching Unions.

The main obstacle that Minister Quinn faces is his own ideology of statism and smoked salmon socialism. The man will leave behind him a legacy of destruction that will perhaps never be repaired.

 

[dereko1969]

The main obstacle that Minister Quinn faces is his own ideology of statism and smoked salmon socialism. The man will leave behind him a legacy of destruction that will perhaps never be repaired.

Any chance of an example of the destruction he is leaving behind due to his "ideology" or is this just another rant?

 

[T McGibney]

Quinn's stated desire to wipe out rural Protestant schools is probably the worst example. The ill-advised proposal for teachers to mark their own students in State exams is another that comes to mind.

 

[ajapale]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/apr/09/finish-school-system

How Finnish schools shine

Teachers are respected, exams are shunned and league tables simply don't exist – but if the Finnish system is so good why is it so hard to emulate?

Finland's Ministry of Education's philosophy has been to trust the professionals, parents and communities to guide their own policy: and it would appear that their investment has paid off.

and from wikipedia:

Both primary and secondary teachers must have a Master's degree to qualify. Teaching is a respected profession and entrance to university programs is highly competitive. A prospective teacher must have very good grades and must combat fierce opposition in order to become a teacher. About only 10% of applicants to certain programs are successful.[25] The respect accorded the profession and the higher salaries than the OECD average lead to higher performing and larger numbers applying for the positions, and this is reflected in the quality of teachers in Finland.

 

[RMCF]

This thread is again full of the anti-teacher sentiment that is rife in this country. They are probably Public Enemy No.1 now among the public service.

I am originally from NI, and we were always under the impression that Irish educated children were very well qualified. A lot of people I have grown to know since I moved to Ireland over a decade ago are incredibly well educated and intelligent people.

I think we as Irish people just love moaning and bashing ourselves. Its never as bad as the moaners make out. Its not always greener on the other side.