Chartered Accountants & CPA Merger

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T McGibney said:
There is no second round of voting.

If the proposal is approved tomorrow there will be at a later stage, a meeting of each institute to ratify bye-laws and constitutional changes respectively.
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What will happen if the vote to amalgamate passes initially but the subsequent changes to the by-laws and constitution fail?
 
accountant1960 said:
What will happen if the vote to amalgamate passes initially but the subsequent changes to the by-laws and constitution fail?
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Realistically they won't fail unless they make a thorough mess of them. I'd imagine that by now at least the outlines of the bye law and constitutional changes have been agreed internally within both organisations.

But if they do make a mess of all that, it should be a relatively simple process to simply correct what's at fault and schedule another meeting to ratify those changes.
 
Annieindublin said:
I guess they can sell one building (CPA) and share facilities in Pearse street
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A superb basis for amalgamating…

I should sell my house and move in with a family down the road.

Imagine the savings we could all make!

The red line issue here is allowing CPAs to use the ACA/FCA designation. They haven’t earned it and they don’t deserve it. Whoever negotiated this ‘deal’ should be taken to to the roof of the white elephant that is Chartered Accountants House and thrown off it.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
negotiated this ‘deal’ should be taken to to the roof of the white elephant that is Chartered Accountants House and thrown off it.
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Again I would encourage you to take a look at the institutes website and social media channels and note the positivity of professional accountancy educators.

We need to back the board with regards this proposal. Going on about Chartered Accountants House is like bemoaning spilt milk

This is a good proposal for the accountancy profession on the island. The boards of both institutes deserve both credit and backing. I have nothing but confidence in the profession going forward.
 
cork said:
Again I would encourage you to take a look at the institutes website and social media channels and note the positivity of professional accountancy educators.

We need to back the board with regards this proposal. Going on about Chartered Accountants House is like bemoaning spilt milk

This is a good proposal for the accountancy profession on the island. The boards of both institutes deserve both credit and backing. I have nothing but confidence in the profession going forward.
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So let me get this straight…people who work for the Institute think that the Institute’s proposal to bail it out financially is a good idea.

My word, say it aint so.

Who’d have thought it?
 
cork said:
Again I would encourage you to take a look at the institutes website and social media channels and note the positivity of professional accountancy educators.

We need to back the board with regards this proposal. Going on about Chartered Accountants House is like bemoaning spilt milk

This is a good proposal for the accountancy profession on the island. The boards of both institutes deserve both credit and backing. I have nothing but confidence in the profession going forward.
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I totally disagree with most of your rhetoric be interesting to see what tomorrow brings.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
A superb basis for amalgamating…

I should sell my house and move in with a family down the road.

Imagine the savings we could all make!

The red line issue here is allowing CPAs to use the ACA/FCA designation. They haven’t earned it and they don’t deserve it. Whoever negotiated this ‘deal’ should be taken to to the roof of the white elephant that is Chartered Accountants House and thrown off it.
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University Lecturer and Professor of Accounting at University of Ulster and UCD who actually set and lecture the exams for both CPA and CA have gone on record that the exams and syllabus of both institutes are of the same standard. Now, unless you've braved both battlefields yourself, perhaps it’s best to shelve the superiority complex. Clutching onto your CA title as if it's a lifebuoy in choppy waters screams of insecurity. Rest easy, no one's prying that cherished designation from your hands.

This supposed superiority of the Chartered “brand” is, in my experience, a myth perpetuated within our own echo chambers. The only people who think Chartered have a good brand are other Chartered members. It's actually quite a poor brand. The general public cannot distinguish between Chartered and CPA, a broader protection of the term 'Accountant' might serve the profession better but that’s a discussion for another day.
 
If chartered isn’t such a recognised brand why does it attract infinitely more members, why do the big four mandate it?Many practitioners have done well off the “brand “
 
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DublinDon said:
If chartered isn’t such a recognised brand why does it attract infinitely more members, why do the big four mandate it?
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Nonsense.
Where did anyone state that CAI wasn't a recognised brand ?

We have an opportunity to create the largest professional body on the island I hope we don't mess it up.

There is comprehensive information on the institutes website and social media channels. I have confidence in the board and the profession going forward.

Ní neart go cur le chéile​

 
robert.tressell said:
University Lecturer and Professor of Accounting at University of Ulster and UCD who actually set and lecture the exams for both CPA and CA have gone on record that the exams and syllabus of both institutes are of the same standard. Now, unless you've braved both battlefields yourself, perhaps it’s best to shelve the superiority complex. Clutching onto your CA title as if it's a lifebuoy in choppy waters screams of insecurity. Rest easy, no one's prying that cherished designation from your hands.

This supposed superiority of the Chartered “brand” is, in my experience, a myth perpetuated within our own echo chambers. The only people who think Chartered have a good brand are other Chartered members. It's actually quite a poor brand. The general public cannot distinguish between Chartered and CPA, a broader protection of the term 'Accountant' might serve the profession better but that’s a discussion for another day.
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100% Robert, the tone of superiority on this thread is like something from the " old boys club". I have a friend/ colleague who did brave both battlefields and the exams and syllabus are of same standard. Given the dwindling numbers of students entering the profession I hope this get passed, not to add CA to my title, titles are not the measure of a good accountant.
 
telco said:
100% Robert, the tone of superiority on this thread is like something from the " old boys club". I have a friend/ colleague who did brave both battlefields and the exams and syllabus are of same standard. Given the dwindling numbers of students entering the profession I hope this get passed, not to add CA to my title, titles are not the measure of a good accountant.
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Why did your colleague do both sets of exams ?
 
Would anyone like to list the top 10 CPAs in Irish public life?

I will kick off with one I can think of.

Albert Manifold Chief Executive of CRH Plc


I could list hundreds of Chartered Accountants in prominent positions in business and finance.

I don't know if the exams or the standard is the same but The ICAI has attracted the best and the brightest of graduates for years.
I know of few graduates who have chosen CPA.


Brendan XFCA
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I could list hundreds of Chartered Accountants in prominent positions in business and finance.
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We could also name some former members who did not do the profession or the country many favours.


robert.tressell said:
University Lecturer and Professor of Accounting at University of Ulster and UCD who actually set and lecture the exams for both CPA and CA have gone on record that the exams and syllabus of both institutes are of the same standard. Now, unless you've braved both battlefields yourself, perhaps it’s best to shelve the superiority complex.
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There is also an accountancy educational professional on the CAI social media channels endorsing the merger proposal. I haven't seen any education professional come out against the proposal.

Well.done to the board, educators and past board members for their contributions.
 
I hope that both institutes come to the right decision today for the future of the profession. I hope than veteran members will indeed consider more younger members.

Negativity to other professional institutes achieves nothing. Such ignorance achieves nothing.

We are not re-inventing the wheel. Mergers of professional accountancy bodies have already happened.

No netter the result, technology will change the profession going forward. I have confidence that the profession will be able to adapt and change with the times

We won't have a choice not to.
 
T McGibney said:
Chartered Accountants Ireland has been on the slide for years if not decades and is despised by a good cross-section of its own membership. A montage of Accountancy Ireland magazine covers over the past 5 years would make for alternately disturbing and comedic viewing, indicative of an organisation that has badly lost its way.

That said, I think it's most unhelpful and unprofessional to denigrate other professional accountants.
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Mr. McGibney's observations strike a prophetic chord, perhaps not in the manner he intended. He's hit the nail on the head regarding the discontent within the ranks. If you ask Chartered members what their view is on their institute, it ranges from indifferent to disillusioned. If you ask CPA members, it ranges from indifferent to a genuine fondness for their institute.

Conversely, CPA appears to be a much more cohesive institute. Their members seem to reflect their institute and vice versa whereas the disparity felt by many Chartered members, who see a council that doesn't mirror the broader membership base. CPA Ireland seems to be adept at punching above their weight, they’ve secured a MRA with AICPA, Canada, Aus and NZ where other much larger organisations have not. Comparably they appear to have more smaller practices based around the country, they smartly invested in their own building on Harcourt Street. This is not some flash in the pan organisation that popped up ten years ago, the organisation is 100 years old, their CEO has about 30 years tenure. That type of management and experience from their executive and council is not to be sniffed at and something that I think an organisation like CA will greatly benefit from.

Looking ahead, should the merger not proceed and many of the current council decides steps down, we could be left with a vacuum that could very well see the lunatics take over the 'asylum' by those same voices of discord and divisiveness that we see here. Our own type of Brexit scenario where the dog finally catches the bus.
 
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