So in effect you are stating that all parties who go to the electorate with a specific manifesto should/must implement that manifesto if they then form a government. In effect that rules out any possibility of a Government being formed unless 1 party gets an overall majority. A manifesto cannot be written in stone as it's broadly based on circumstances and opportunity. In reality parties when elected should do their utmost to honour their promises ( reality unfortunately has shown us otherwise) but compromise will always be required when circumstances such as a coalition government or economic circumstances require a dilution of election promises.
Another General Election
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I totally agree with you in regard to "doing their utmost". Usually the balance of power in the coalition or the economic circumstances are clearer drivers as you note, but I think we are in a messier situation here...
Party A will not bring down a minority government led by Party B for X years, provided Party B honours a manifesto pledge by Party A which is contrary to a manifesto pledge by Party B. We effectively have a draw \ stalemate there.
Party B is a minority government, reliant on other TDs for support even to operate as a minority government.
Party A and Party B cannot agree on this.
The stalemate should be settled by the broader view of the policy issue among the Dail in general. Have a vote on the suspension of charges. FF and FG can honour their election manifesto promises by voting Aye or Nay respectively.
If either of the main parties are unwilling to allow the Dail to decide the issue, then they should stop messing about and pull the plug, dust off the posters and get back out canvassing for the next elections. And maybe have another look at that manifesto to see if they still want sth to be a red line.
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Ceist Beag
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Precisely. Odyssey there is no way both FF and FG can achieve every promise in their election manifestos - there will have to be compromise or else we go for another election. It is disingenuous to suggest that FF and FG should stick rigidly to their manifesto position on IW if they are serious about trying to agree on a minority FG led government supported by FF. Either agree on compromise or stop this charade and go back for another election.
The dominance of the Water Charges debate in the past 24 months and its exaggerated importance in the Election campaign is really damaging the country. It is taking the focus away from real problems and most of our Politicians are more focused on getting their personal Water Charges strategy correct to protect themselves, than making any other decisions.
It is really a very minor issue for most people. A small decrease in Income tax / USC would offset the charges - but then the main Protestors might not get the benefit of this.
Can the President force an Election date?
It is really a very minor issue for most people. A small decrease in Income tax / USC would offset the charges - but then the main Protestors might not get the benefit of this.
Can the President force an Election date?
Nail on the head QED!!
Lets stop talking about IW for a second, take a step back and ask what is wrong with our political system? Why have they failed to form a government since being elected? Who/what is the root cause of this failure?
Lets focus energy positively on debating and rationalising the above rather than wasting time and energy talking about the distraction that is IW. Lets identify where the system is broken and fix it in the next General Election.
Lets stop talking about IW for a second, take a step back and ask what is wrong with our political system? Why have they failed to form a government since being elected? Who/what is the root cause of this failure?
Lets focus energy positively on debating and rationalising the above rather than wasting time and energy talking about the distraction that is IW. Lets identify where the system is broken and fix it in the next General Election.
Furthermore, I think both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are using Water Charges to differentiate themselves and hide the fact that there is very little difference betwen the 2 Partys. It is in both Party's interest to keep the charade that they are different. There are 2 huge Organisations with a huge draw from the public purse, and they need to keep both Organisations up and running.
It's the Emperors Clothes.
Sophrosyne
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You are right Ceist Beag, I phrased this badly.
Certainly, the electorate would have had many reasons for their choice of candidates. It just happened that most elected TDs favoured abolition of water charges in their manifestos:
AAA,
FF,
PBP,
SD,
SF, and
certain independents.
The FF manifesto, page 38, actually contains a commitment to abolish rather than suspend water charges, despite signing up to the European Communities (Water Policy) Regulations 2003.
So, if abolition was put to a Dáil vote, it would likely be carried.
You have to ask why abolition of water charges was so important in the talks that it was placed above more pressing issues.
Some have asked what is wrong with our political system. Surely, this is a case in point.
In whose interest is abolition of water charges and what about the knock-on consequences on ongoing budgets for health, education, housing, policing, etc.?
In whose interest is the retention of Irish Water?
Initial plan was to privatise and sell it off (I wonder to whom?)
Abolition of water charges? - cost of water currently included in General taxation, LPT and Motor Tax.
No coincidence here I think.......................??
Why do we have a Department of the Environment? It controls the Local Authorities and all it needs is funding and focus.
I would prefer not to have another ESB with the power to hold the country to ransom with the most well paid workers in the country.
Could the Irish Water unions potentially turn of the water and sewerage treatment plants in a LUAS type dispute.
D/Environment with proper funding and direction could manage Water by the 5 regions with the Councils/LAs doing the work (as now)
Let the DAIL vote now on Irish Water and be done with it.
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Any evidence for that?
T McGibney
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They've been doing that for generations, with reasonably good results in some counties and absolutely atrocious failures, including E. coli outbreaks and boil water notices, in others. Meanwhile our ageing national water infrastructure continues to creak...
Think you might struggle to find very much support that cause! ....
This was something used as a scaremongering tactic by PPP/AAA etc. IW do not own the infrastructure and would not be entitled to interfere with water supply/waste disposal in any dispute.
Also, I am open to correction on this but IW are unlikely to hold any monopoly from the State in respect of water supply. I.e. I just don't envisage a scenario where IW could be sold and new buyers immediately turn off all the taps & demand an enormous premium to turn them on again.
It would be interesting to discover exactly what rights IW currently have other than a contract with the State to maintain/repair the infrastructure!!! Would the company have any intrinsic value to an external purchaser if these contracts were renewable annually?
Ceist Beag
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In the interest of the economy of this country
Where did you get this story - anywhere credible?
In other words, paid for by those paying tax only. I would prefer everyone pays for the cost of providing water in this country, not just tax payers.
Agree.
Stephen Donnelly, Social Democrats TD talked about the need to remove the decision on Irish Water out of government negotiations.
This issue must come before the entire Dáil where a democratic vote can take place in order to truly reflect the mandate of the electorate on this particular issue.
Let the elected representatives vote on the future of Irish Water with a proper debate, instead of being railroaded through as before (lest people forget)
........Thats democratic
Sophrosyne
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It probably suits Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to keep Irish Water to the fore. The real issues, poverty, homelessness, the economy, restless public servants, organised crime etc can take a back seat but not Irish bloody Water. You see, they can resolve the water issue, but not the others.
Good point, and we should probably give more focus to matters of policy that are entirely within their control, and not 'attempts' to control, or 'statements' to predict, forces external to then. Not saying politicians can't do anything about the above matters, but they are more plans of attack than what will actually happen.
But their not resolving the water problem they are just kicking the problem down the road for somebody else to deal with
"The main argument for domestic charges has been that the money is needed for additional investment but this is a false argument. The economics of the water charge are such that the money raised more or less covers the cost of raising the money so not a single euro paid out by Irish households is being used to invest in the water system, nor is it being used to provide people with water. It covers the cost of taking the money from them. Nevertheless, capital investment is happening. This is much needed and welcome but how is it happening if the domestic water charge is not raising any money to make it happen? It is happening because Irish Water is borrowing.
The second argument put forward by the Government for a domestic water charge is that a domestic water charge allows Irish Water to borrow this money, which means we do not have to shrink the fiscal space.
However, Irish Water is borrowing on balance sheet so the Irish State can borrow on balance sheet, but at a much lower cost, to do exactly the same thing. It costs approximately twice as much money in Ireland per capita to supply water as it does in the UK, including in Northern Ireland where there is a similar geography and population density. Therein lies the answer to finding the several hundred million euro per year required for capital investment in the system."
Extract from Stephen Donnelly. DAIL.
The second argument put forward by the Government for a domestic water charge is that a domestic water charge allows Irish Water to borrow this money, which means we do not have to shrink the fiscal space.
However, Irish Water is borrowing on balance sheet so the Irish State can borrow on balance sheet, but at a much lower cost, to do exactly the same thing. It costs approximately twice as much money in Ireland per capita to supply water as it does in the UK, including in Northern Ireland where there is a similar geography and population density. Therein lies the answer to finding the several hundred million euro per year required for capital investment in the system."
Extract from Stephen Donnelly. DAIL.
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