A majority has registered for the Household Charge - has a majority paid?

[Brendan Burgess]

The last minute rush has resulted in just over 800,000 people paying the charge before the deadline.

This is quite an achievement given

• the extraordinarily well run campaign against it which gave the impression that no one was paying it.
• The encouragement by some elected TDs of people to break the law
• The reluctance of most people to declare publicly that they were paying it
• The government's shocking handling of the issue
• The difficulties people experienced with the website

The government needs to extend the deadline now to the end of April to facilitate those who were misled into believing that the majority were against the charge.

They should also offer an incentive - such as giving a 10% discount on next year's charge to those who pay this year's charge before the end of April.

 

[Marion]

The last minute rush has resulted in just over 800,000 people paying the charge before the deadline.

The government needs to extend the deadline now to the end of April to facilitate those who were misled into believing that the majority were against the charge.

They should also offer an incentive - such as giving a 10% discount on next year's charge to those who pay this year's charge before the end of April.

I don't think this is fair to those Who had to find the money to pay on time this year. I would not be in favour of extending the deadline.


An incentive for next year is a good idea.

Marion

 

[irishmoss]

They should re-instate the direct debit option.

 

[truthseeker]

Its hard to know what the real numbers are, different media are reporting different figures, some based on 1.6 million being liable, some on 1.71 million being liable - to pay.

RTEis saying that 6.2 million euro has been collected, which means there are plenty of waivers in that number, plus some postal applications that have not been processed.

 

[Leaky1]

I think there should be a 2-week extension so people who didnt pay because they felt they would be with the majority can reconsider it now, if they wish to. Not exactly fair to those who may have struggled and succeeded in coming up with the money on time, but this charge was never fair anyway.

Brendan, on your point "The reluctance of most people to declare publicly that they were paying it" - I was verbally abused by a 'friend' on Friday night for having paid in February. Doesn't make it easy to admit having paid early! Obviously the 'friend' was staunchly in the "Don't Register, Don't Pay" corner. Actually now I think of it, I never told her I paid in Feb, just that I had paid - hard to think she could've got more irate than she was though.

 

[tenchi-ghost]

News headlines are often saying "x00,000 have paid the charge" then the main body of the article says "x00,000 have registered to pay or have already paid the charge". Quite a difference.

I'd imagine more than one person selected the waiver option when they we're meant to, and hopefully a lot of dummy properties were entered in there.

 

[serotoninsid]

News headlines are often saying "x00,000 have paid the charge" then the main body of the article says "x00,000 have registered to pay or have already paid the charge". Quite a difference.

Yes - was just about to post this but you've got there before me. I am among those who registered (in the first week - before thinking the whole thing through and reconsidering) and I'm sure there are others that fit into this category. It's clearly misleading to give this stat - when it's the total number of people that have actually paid that is the relevant stat.

They should also offer an incentive - such as giving a 10% discount on next year's charge to those who pay this year's charge before the end of April.

As if there wasn't enough injustice in this charge, you want to add to that injustice (by discriminating between those liable for the charge)? That would be a case of sharp practice in order to break the momentum of those opposed to the charge...

 

[truthseeker]

Brendan I think you should change the title of the thread, its clear that over 800,000 people have registered, its not clear how many have paid yet.

 

[chrisboy]

With the figure of 62 million euros taken in, it actually appears that the majority did not pay.

 

[Gervan]

Brendan, you say

those who were misled into believing that the majority were against the charge.

.
I still believe the majority ARE against the charge. The fact that I may have paid does not mean I am not against it. It makes me absolutely furious.

So please don't think all those who have paid are supporters!

 

[truthseeker]

With the figure of 62 million euros taken in, it actually appears that the majority did not pay.

Dont forget that people who chose direct debit will not have paid in full yet, plus they have not yet processed some amount of postal applications.

But even so, it is not clear at all to me that a majority have paid.

It has not yet been made clear if the base is on 1.71 million or 1.6 million.

 

[The_Banker]

Brendan, you say .
I still believe the majority ARE against the charge. The fact that I may have paid does not mean I am not against it. It makes me absolutely furious.

So please don't think all those who have paid are supporters!

Excellent point

 

[rekhib]

The last minute rush has resulted in just over 800,000 people paying the charge before the deadline.

Yes, most sources are saying that just over 800,000 people have registered however the figure for waivers is being quoted at about 12.5k people so even on the 1.6m base, it seems those who haven't paid are in the majority.

 

[Padraigb]

...
I still believe the majority ARE against the charge. The fact that I may have paid does not mean I am not against it. It makes me absolutely furious.

So please don't think all those who have paid are supporters!

Neither can you claim that all those who have not paid are opposed in principle to the charge.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

The figures seem to contradict each other. I think that if it hasn't actually passed the halfway mark, it will do so with the applications posted on Friday and Saturday which won't be received until tomorrow.

Brendan

 

[Purple]

I'd imagine more than one person selected the waiver option when they we're meant to, and hopefully a lot of dummy properties were entered in there.

yes, that's what we need; more members of the public wasting the time and resources of the state.

 

[truthseeker]

The figures seem to contradict each other. I think that if it hasn't actually passed the halfway mark, it will do so with the applications posted on Friday and Saturday which won't be received until tomorrow.

The most comprehensive figures Ive seen are:

The Local Government Management Agency (LGMA) released the latest figures just after midnight which said that a total of 621,717 properties had registered or paid the flat rate while there were another 89,000 postal applications still to be processed.
As of 2pm yesterday 12,677 properties had registered for the waiver while estimated tallies received from local authorities came in at 82,175. This meant a total figure of 805,569.

Even if all unprocessed applications were payments with no waivers, the total of 805,569 registrations less 12,677 registered waivers gives less than 800,001 paid - which is the magic number needed for it to be a majority who have paid.

The figure of 62 million in money collected so far is misleading as it doesnt take into account the direct debits or the unprocessed registrations.

Certainly on the above figures it appears a majority has not paid.

Im not sure how much to trust the figures as various media have been reporting various numbers right from the start - the government have also been accused of downplaying the number required to pay in order to make the percentages of who paid look better.

 

[mcaul]

I don't think this is fair to those Who had to find the money to pay on time this year. I would not be in favour of extending the deadline.


An incentive for next year is a good idea.

Marion

I paid in early January, but I'd have no issue with a one month extension. Firstly because its a new charge, secondly, the way it was handled was a shambles, thirdly we are in recession and some people may need a little longer to budget, and finally it has got out that the charge is to pay for LOCAL services and not for bank bailouts etc as many SF / socialist types would make you believe.

Brendan, you say .
I still believe the majority ARE against the charge. The fact that I may have paid does not mean I am not against it. It makes me absolutely furious.

So please don't think all those who have paid are supporters!

If asked, the majority of people would be against all tax, frankly I don't like charging / paying 23% vat, I hate fuel duty and I cry when I see the amount of tax taken off a hard worked for salary.

But hey, things have to be paid for, from teachers to schools, from housing to social welfare and evrything else inbetween - though I really believe the social welfare system is far too generous in Ireland and is not targeted properly.


Having lived in UK, FRANCE and Boston, we have it quite easy in terms of tax.

 

[serotoninsid]

and finally it has got out that the charge is to pay for LOCAL services and not for bank bailouts etc as many SF / socialist types would make you believe.

Maybe so but they have displaced funding that would otherwise have been allocated to local authorities. No question in what you say - it is supposed to cover local services but there's a clear kneejerk reaction here - and it's clear what's triggered that. Of course, many would say that this is due to the running budgetary deficit but the notion that the bank bailout has contributed towards the introduction of this tax at this point in time - sticks in the craw of many people.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I paid in early January, but I'd have no issue with a one month extension. Firstly because its a new charge, secondly, the way it was handled was a shambles, thirdly we are in recession and some people may need a little longer to budget,

Fully agree. But also because the very well organised campaign against it gave the impression that the vast majority were against it. Now that it is clear that the vast majority are not against paying it, it would be a good idea to incentivise the rest to pay it by a new deadline.