Writing Share Loses Against Future Gains

C

CollyD

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Hi All, I did a quick search with the term "Share loses" and nothing relevant came back, so my question is, in previous years where I have made a lose on share selling and if I inform the revenue of this lose in my form12 can I use this against any gains in the following yr if I make gains above the tax free of 1270Euro and also if so can I carry loses forward indefinitely ie keep adding my loses up over subsequent yrs and when eventually I make a profit start writing the loses I made over previous yrs against it?
 
CollyD said:
Hi All, I did a quick search with the term "Share loses" and nothing relevant came back, so my question is, in previous years where I have made a lose on share selling and if I inform the revenue of this lose in my form12 can I use this against any gains in the following yr
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You can carry capital losses forward indefinitely and set them against subsequent gains when calculating your CGT bill.
if I make gains above the tax free of 1270Euro
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You must write off previously incurred losses before using your annual CGT allowance. So if, in one year, you make a net gain of €1,270 and have previously incurred losses of €2,000 then you must write off €1,270 of these (leaving €730 to carry forward) and do not get to use your annual allowance.
and also if so can I carry loses forward indefinitely ie keep adding my loses up over subsequent yrs and when eventually I make a profit start writing the loses I made over previous yrs against it?
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Yes - with the caveat made in my previous point.
 
One last question, in working out the exchange rate difference between the time you purchased shares and then on the date you sell them, I heard you had to use revenue approved exchange rates set out for every tax yr, is this the case? So I presume over a couple of yrs the differences from week to week on the revenue set out rate averages out?
 
I think that you can use various rates - e.g. Revenue rates, Central Bank rates etc. - for the periods/transactions in question. I'm not sure if you covert the acquisition costs and disposal proceeds from, say, US$ to € independently or convert just the gain amoount etc.
 
CollyD said:
One last question, in working out the exchange rate difference between the time you purchased shares and then on the date you sell them, I heard you had to use revenue approved exchange rates set out for every tax yr, is this the case? So I presume over a couple of yrs the differences from week to week on the revenue set out rate averages out?
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Here's a summary of daily rates going back to 03.01.05.

[broken link removed]

Previous rates can be found on this page.

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If you converted € to $ to buy the shares and converted proceeds from $ to € when you sold them, you should use the € figures.

If you maintained a € account it might be more complicated.

Brendan
 
I made gains in first 9 months and under self assessment paid up in October. I have since made losses. Can I claim back what I paid to the extent of those losses. I know in general one can't carry back losses, but I seem to have been caught by the payment rules.
 
ClubMan said:
I think that you can use various rates - e.g. Revenue rates, Central Bank rates etc. - for the periods/transactions in question. I'm not sure if you covert the acquisition costs and disposal proceeds from, say, US$ to € independently or convert just the gain amoount etc.
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Surely you should use the rate on the contract note?
 
Harchibald said:
I made gains in first 9 months and under self assessment paid up in October. I have since made losses. Can I claim back what I paid to the extent of those losses. I know in general one can't carry back losses, but I seem to have been caught by the payment rules.
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Losses made in the same year as gains can be offset against those gains. So, presuming your total cgt liability for 2007 is less than the amount of tax paid on account in October, you will be due a refund. This will issue after you submit your return, so get it in in early January.
 
ClubMan said:
Eh? What rate? If your trades are in US$ for example then you will just get trades quoted in US$.
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I suppose it differs beween brokers, but I've got contract notes for GBP trades but with the total due in EUR and the FX rate used.
 
OK I get you now - I'm more familiar with dealing with the likes of E*Trade or Ameritrade and getting contract notes in US$ only and (correctly or otherwise) was assuming the same sort of scenario here.
 
Never realised that losses could be carried forward.

Q1 . Even if you make a loss and are thus not liable for CGT tax , do you still have to fill out a form ?
Q2. Is it too late to send in a CGT form even if there is no gains made on that form. ?
Q3. Is this related to only CGT losses/gains made in 2006 ? (Jan to Sept 2006)
 
IFT said:
Q1 . Even if you make a loss and are thus not liable for CGT tax , do you still have to fill out a form ?
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I think that you are supposed to file a CGT return even if there is no liability for tax or you are in a loss making situation.
Q2. Is it too late to send in a CGT form even if there is no gains made on that form. ?
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If you mean can you write off previously undeclared capital losses against capital gains then I'm not sure. I did this before and explained the calculations in detail and Revenue accepted the return/payment. But maybe this is not the ideal way to do it? If in doubt get professional advice.
Q3. Is this related to only CGT losses/gains made in 2006 ? (Jan to Sept 2006)
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What? If you mean carrying losses forward then these can be carried forward from earlier than 2006.
 
ClubMan said:
What? If you mean carrying losses forward then these can be carried forward from earlier than 2006.
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Is the form that was to be submitted on the 31st Oct 2007 for CGT for the period Jan-Sept 2006 so that losses/gained in 2007 are submitted next year?
 
Payment of Tax Payment dates for disposals are as follows:

a) If the disposal is made in the period 1 January to 30 September the tax is due on 31 October in that tax year
b) If the disposal is made in the period 1 October to 31 December the tax is due on 31 January in the following year

Form CGT Payslip which is available under Forms may be used for remittance purposes.

Documentation Required

* Return of Capital Gains must be made by 31 October in the year following year of assessment without being required to do so by the Inspector of Taxes. You may do this by completing the CGT Section of your annual return (Form 11 or Form 12). These forms can be found on the Tax Returns page. Alternatively, you may complete Form CG1 which can be found on the Capital Gains Tax Forms page.
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Bit confused here. It says that the tax is due in the year of disposal but also that the return must be made in the year following. Can someone shed some light...tnks
 
IFT said:
Bit confused here. It says that the tax is due in the year of disposal but also that the return must be made in the year following. Can someone shed some light...tnks
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Payment is made as follows.. Jan - Sep gains are due to be paid by 31 Oct. Oct - Dec gains are due to be paid by 31 January. Then you must make a seperate return outlining proceeds of sale, type of assets disposed of, net gain on disposal and the amount of tax due. This return should match up with the monies previously paid. Hope this helps
 
I guess the 31st Oct/31st Jan CGT payment dates is an accelerated payment mechanism rather than an actual tax return. This also happens with Share Options or indeed with PAYE itself.

The Tax Returns themselves (Forms 11 & 12), due in the following year, round up all your taxable income/gains and also what tax has already been paid - the object being to see if there is an underpayment due or a reclaim of overpayment.
 
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