Would you move back to Ireland?

[Glenbhoy]

but the generic ones, the ones who have bought into the consumerist's dream, the ones who have 5 credit cards and think that cold-looking resteraunts with aluminium and UV lighting are classy joints, the ones who spend their saturday afternoons 'in town' going around the shops - I depise such shallow, materialistic and uncultivated people

Maybe those people enjoy their lives Cello, you've really got to lighten up, this cultural elistism you got going on can't be pleasant. There's no need to be so judgemental, live and let live.....

 

[Humpback]

Maybe those people enjoy their lives Cello, you've really got to lighten up, this cultural elistism you got going on can't be pleasant. There's no need to be so judgemental, live and let live.....

Mind your spelling there Glenbhoy, you'll upset Cello even more. But now that you mention it, it really struck me reading the rant that he/she was portraying themselves in exactly the same manner of the type of people they're purporting to be having a go at.

Sitting outside having a coffee and a cigarette? Whoever heard? That's not an Irish thing to do. What's wrong with sitting in a dingy pub on a Saturday afternoon watching the match?

 

[GeneralZod]

Anti-Irish Irish media?

Which newspapers? Which journalists?

Here's the start of that sentence for you.

The daily telegraph is no more anti-irish and probably less so than the anglo-phobia that is prevalent in the Irish media.

The Sunday Business Post/Damien Kiberd.
The Irish Times/Eddie Holt.
The letters page of the IT can usually be counted on to have at least one anglophobe.

Same question to you. Newspapers and journalists.

 

[FrankBascomb]

Call it a sociological case study - I'm quite serious! I have gone to observe such people in their habitat...


Why should I move?

- I'm not asking you to move, Cellopoint, I'm just saying there are other ways to spend your time. Why waste time being obsessed with a lifestyle or people that you despise? Why bother? Life is too short.

-How many people actually do this do you think? I reckon most people would prefer to see some stupid hollywood comedy, read a Dan Brown book/some other airport 'classic', walk through Jervis Street shopping centre or to go along to some silly music festival and be herded around like a cow.

- why does it matter what "most people" want to do? If they want to read a Dan Brown book, let them (and Dan Brown is hardly an Irish phenomenon). You can spend your time reading Proust or Joyce, if you so wish. By the way, I went to the theatre last week and it was packed - is this similar to your "sociological case study" carried out in Dundrum shopping Centre?


Oh go and call the spelling police would you?

- Please don't be sensitive on the spelling issue -I was merely pointing out the irony of misspelling your criticism of us as a nation of ignorami and illiterates.

 

[casiopea]

You'll find this attitude wherever you go, anywhere in the world.

I respectively disagree, fair enough maybe you might find the same attitude in NY but not anywhere in the world by a long shot. Ive lived and worked in many cities and havent experienced it (including NY and calafornia). Ive frequently heard the "you lot [irish] think you're the centre of the universe" critism I personally think it comes about as traditionally Ireland was quite a homogenous society, we were irish people on an irish island and quite frankly to us we were the centre of the universe. Now Dublin and Ireland have many nationalities, people's children are in classes with children from other cultures and religions "the centre of the universe" feeling I think will no longer apply (in our generation maybe but certainly) in future generations.

 

[Humpback]

The daily telegraph is no more anti-irish and probably less so than the anglo-phobia that is prevalent in the Irish media.

Ooops. . Apologies. In my rush to 1000 posts I guess I'm not reading everything as fully as I should.

 

[GeneralZod]

Ooops. . Apologies. In my rush to 1000 posts I guess I'm not reading everything as fully as I should.

Well that's alright then. Calming down now..

 

[Humpback]

Well that's alright then. Calming down now..

Good. Apologies again. Up to 998 now.

 

[room305]

... I depise such shallow, materialistic and uncultivated people. God love them though, they're probably so busy slaving away on the corportate ladder that they don't get the time, nor the inclination to think or dream about anything other than the next pair of shoes or the forthcoming boozy weekend. They annoy me, and I wish they'd go away - a good recession should be enough to restore a bit of decorum.

Ah, for a glorious return to the halycon days when we were all pennyless, sober and spent our days fervently discussing Ulysses and At Swim-two-birds.

Seriously, it's a bit much to hope for recession just to satisfy your cultural snobbery. The great heaving masses don't disappear during a recession you know.

Why am I reminded of Travis Bickle?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]All the animals come out at night - whores, skunk pussies, buggers, queens, fairies, dopers, junkies, sick, venal. Someday a real rain [recession] will come and wash all this scum off the streets.[/FONT]

 

[bogwarrior]

I don't think so. As a non-national also, I found appalling the poor coverage international news get here. Unless one or more irish citizen are killed somewhere outside the country, when then you might get something. I can't tell you what are the news like now back at home, have been gone for 4 years, so things might have change, but it used to be first international news (mainly US, any war around the world, etc etc) National (if in a local tv station, that would include local news, that might not make it to the national stations), and then sports (which gets to much attention for my liking anyway...as there are specialise programs for that)
I remembered being home when the money that was stolen in NI was found out in Cork, and learnt about it from the newspapers at home.....same when Dolores Mcnamara won the Euromillions, family were asking if BF family new her, mind you anything like that happening outside Ireland, you wouldn't know.
Some news are only reported, as the recent train accident in Valencia, because it was thought to be a terrorist attack, otherwise it wouldn't have been mention.

when I lived in Australia I used always moan about the news coverage there - it was very centred on the city the station was broadcasting from, and like your experience here, the only international news you got was when it had an 'Australian angle'. But since I've come back I've realised the media here aren't much different - RTE is as much a culprit as TV3, Todayfm etc. I don't know if it was always like that - upto 10 years ago we had our own war in the north which accounted for probably 50% of the coverage.

anyway, nowadays I tune into the BBC World Service.

 

[pernickety]

ha ha, this topic is classic!

 

[Remix]

I'm afraid, Cellopoint, that confronting the issues facing Ireland particularly the runaway debt problem is like attempting an intervention with someone descending the depths of alcoholism. They just don't want to know.

The celtic tiger seemed to be going great guns up until about 2001. At that point it stalled and rather step-back and consolidate, we launched into a borrowing binge that makes a mockery of - and I think will eventually undo - much of what was achieved during the celtic tiger era.

We seem to be heading from poverty to wealth to debt and back down again without the usual intervening period of civilisation/culture. Bit of a joke really !

 

[Solutions]

My wife and I both left Ireland seperatly in the 80's, when things were really bad in Ireland. We spent 13-14 years in various parts of the UK where we met, married, baught and sold houses and eventully had childern. Then 5-6 years ago we returned to Ireland to live as our parents were getting older. we moved to Dublin, with all its increasing house prices, but I would do it again in an instant! Family is more important then you think when you are away. It is gereat to be near the family and to be able to visit them on a whim and when things go wrong there is support. This is more important that I would ever have thought possible. Also we are where we belong, at home in Ireland, and it is a great country.

 

[dontaskme]

We're now a nation of hethons, ignorami, illiterates and carousers.

Cello, you may be making the mistake of not distinguishing between the projected image and the reality.

Irish people don't tend to project the café culture, but that does not mean there is no culture there. If you met Patrick Kavanagh in the pub you might think he was an ignorant carouser, because he did not present the image of the soi disant intellectual. Similarly Brendan Behan, or countless others.

You might find that many of the European café intellectuals who seem so clever of a Gauloise and espresso are in fact just as shallow and possibly more ignorant under their turtleneck veneer as your perception of Irish people.

 

[fitzy73]

Please elaborate on the "pile of dog doo doo" that we're heading for.
Manufacturing in decline, interest rates skyrocketing, no control of the economy because of the ECB, 30% of the workforce directly or indirectly involved in the construction business, Brussels looking at the 12.5% rate.
Ireland's interest rate is currently 3%, 1.5% less than the United Kingdom. Interest rates globally (EU, UK and US) are on the upward trend, so we're likely to see this gap remain rather than converge in your timeframe.
Unlike Ireland, the UK (thankfully) still has independent control of its interest rates. If you think the ECB will hold rates because of property prices in Ireland you are sadly mistaken.

Ireland's rate of inflation in July was exactly the same as the United Kingdom - 2.4%.
Agreed, but see my previous point.
As for personal debt levels, by all accounts the United Kingdom is in worse doo doo than Ireland - have a look [broken link removed].
Again, agreed. There is huge level of personal debt here - but I honestly believe we are over the hump.


And while we're at it, remind me where school children have been stabbed to death because they were black? Or where town and city centres were badly damaged because of race riots? Or where one of the biggest growing political parties is called the BNP?

Ahem, hello?? Have you managed to venture out recently mate? Ireland is a sea of simmering racism, an undercurrent which will come out in the next few years. Maybe you live in a nice D4 semi, where you are not exposed to the tension, but believe you me its there. Have a walk through Dell in Limerick, ask a carpenter in Dublin, ask the council in Meath.

Remind me also where there was a housing collapse in the last decade or two? I'm sure it wasn't in Ireland anyway.

"We are different, it won't happen to us". Dunno if you did Economics mate in your Leaving, but did you ever hear of cycles? Course Ireland is different.

Congratulations to you and your great job and prospects in London. Having been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt for a number of years myself, I hope things stay rosy for you. Just beware, that as a non-national yourself over there, that you too could end up in some doo doo as well.

Really. So a job where I have a defined career path, a salary increase every year, an opportunity to sit on the board of Directors etc should be given up.

And finally, if you're going to cast aspersions on your own country, and by association with all of us who who still live here and pay taxes in order to support your family in their old age, please be specific, accurate, and non-alarmist. In the (almost) words from Dragnet, "just the facts, sir!!!".
I have to say people like you are also a major reason why I wouldn't go home again - people who would rather sit in the pub and talk about how much they have made this week in "equity" and deluding themselves on the never never of false economy of stupid property prices. I hope it holds well for you.

 

[macbri]

I have been living in Australia 4 last 3 years and have gone back to Ireland twice 4 a couple of months in the last 2 years.

I couldn't move back to Ireland due to lifestyle,cost of living including house prices and weather.

At the moment,I can take 10-15 weeks off a year ,rent a 2 bedroom city centre apartment with pool,security and gym and generally have a much more relaxed lifesytle.
I have sampled Londons'/Dublins' lifestyle and neither compare to sydney(I knew thats' only my opinion).

I find it hard here to spend money compared to when back in Dublin where it disappears so quickly.

A couple of examples,we just got our quarterly electricity bill came in at $83aud,same for gas bill,phone bill with broadband comes in at $80aud per month.

Went shopping with the other half this weekend bill came in at $75 coupled with rent of $190pw leaves me with discretionary spending of $800pw(currently clearing $1100 per week on contract work)

 

[Humpback]

Again, agreed. There is huge level of personal debt here - but I honestly believe we are over the hump.

Have you managed to venture out recently mate?

Dunno if you did Economics mate in your Leaving

Eh, mate? You're not Irish at all, are you, mate?

I have to say people like you are also a major reason why I wouldn't go home again - people who would rather sit in the pub and talk about how much they have made this week in "equity" and deluding themselves on the never never of false economy of stupid property prices. I hope it holds well for you.

Please explain where you're getting the information from this discussion to base any of these comments in order to be able to make such a personal attack on me? If you can't detail this, I expect an apology immediately.

You're the only one giving the impression that such things as equity and house prices are of any concern here. Like that's any different to your aim in life as detailed here -

Really. So a job where I have a defined career path, a salary increase every year, an opportunity to sit on the board of Directors etc should be given up.

Good luck to you.

 

[Purple]

CelloPoint, you seem to be very insecure about anyone who has made money over the last few years, treating them all as shallow and hedonistic. I am sure you are aware, given your implied intellectual prowess, that there is no correlation between intellectual shallowness and a hedonistic life style. Indeed in many cases the opposite it true.
Now I’m no intellectual, going to the theatre three or four times a year, I rarely read the Booker prize short list and find John Banville hard going. I have also gone to many of those unholy places in Dublin that you mention and have quite enjoyed myself. Yes the superficiality and shallowness of SOME of the people there can get on my nerves but it does not overwhelm me as it does you.
I also see no dichotomy between being a soccer fan and having an interest in the arts. I am not a soccer fan, but watch the odd match, and would be in the national gallery about once a year (more if there is an exhibition that I am interested in). I think you may find that the culturally rich country of Italy, where the arts and “high culture” are part of every day life, is also football obsessed.
You seem to suffer from that most uncultured of phenomenon; you are contemptuous of that which you do not understand.

 

[Humpback]

Okay, I'm bored at work, so lets have a look to see if any of your statistics quoted now are any better than your original one's which have proven to be incorrect, at your own admission.

You say -

Manufacturing in decline,

in Ireland, and by implication, the UK is a much better place to be. I say, what's the difference between manufacturing output here declining, and declining in the UK - see here.

interest rates skyrocketing,

You've already acknowledged that you're not correct here.

no control of the economy because of the ECB,

Not strictly true. We haven't had control over our interest rates since 1998. We've always had control over our economy.

30% of the workforce directly or indirectly involved in the construction business, Brussels looking at the 12.5% rate.

Taking like with like, the percentage in Ireland is 12.5%, and a similar comparison with the UK is 7%. Hardly that great a difference really, is it?

Unlike Ireland, the UK (thankfully) still has independent control of its interest rates.

You really are an English person pretending to be Irish, aren't you?

Ahem, hello?? Have you managed to venture out recently mate? Ireland is a sea of simmering racism, an undercurrent which will come out in the next few years. Maybe you live in a nice D4 semi, where you are not exposed to the tension, but believe you me its there. Have a walk through Dell in Limerick, ask a carpenter in Dublin, ask the council in Meath.

I never said that Ireland wasn't racist. Surely you know that most places in the world you go to there's some sort of resentment on the part of those less well off towards those who are either better off, or towards those who are seen to be benefitting from the fact that they are in such a position.

The expression of how this racism manifests itself is what I was referring to. I haven't seen groups of disillusioned Muslims blowing up any Dublin Buses or Irish Rail trains yet.

"We are different, it won't happen to us". Dunno if you did Economics mate in your Leaving, but did you ever hear of cycles? Course Ireland is different.

Again, you seem to be missing my point. You're raising all these things as to why your United Kingdom is better than our Ireland. I'm arguing that they're on a par, pretty much.

I never said there wasn't, or wouldn't be, a property crash in Ireland, but holding out the UK as being the place to be, you're ignoring your/their history with regards to property prices.

Really. So a job where I have a defined career path, a salary increase every year, an opportunity to sit on the board of Directors etc should be given up.

Not at all, MATE! You climb the corporate ladder over there. Become a success, look down on your background and your friends back at home because you're a Director now. We'll still support your parents in their old age by paying our taxes and funding the PRSI contributions.

I have to say people like you are also a major reason why I wouldn't go home again - people who would rather sit in the pub and talk about how much they have made this week in "equity" and deluding themselves on the never never of false economy of stupid property prices. I hope it holds well for you.

And you're the reason I don't live in the UK any more. I had, and still have, acquaintences who have moved away from Ireland and instantly everything in Ireland is crap. You look down and make disparaging remarks, from afar. You believe the grass is always greener, and while it may be for you specifically, it doesn't give you the right to hark back and tell us all how **** our lives are going to be.

 

[ragazza]

Back to the original question of would we expats move back to ireland.
I'm in the position of making that decision - every year I think "just one more year here", but I cant keep saying that, or I'll never move back.

Reasons to move back:
- ageing parents
- siblings and nieces and nephews
- friends
- be more settled (not feeling like a nomad)

Reasons to stay:
- weather
- cost of living
- access to mountains for skiing, coast for diving

Its a very difficult decision to make - I feel like I'm part of two cultures now, and dont know which to choose. It would nearly make me wish I had never emigrated in the first place!