wood pellet central heating

Optimistic- would you mind advising which boiler you bought & how much it + all the ancillary equipment cost. What helped you decide on the brand. There are some good boilers at the high end of the market ie, Thermocomfort, SolarFocus, ETA, KWB, Okefen, Windhager, BioTech and there is not much between them pricewise.

ninsaga
 
Hi.
We installed a Windhager. The reasons we went for it are:

It is modulating and will adjust to the heat requirement at a given time.
Completely automatic.
The company/manutacturer has a good history of being on the cutting edge of developing technology, though, I do accept that there are others now in the upper end of the market.
There is a 5 year guarantee on it and parts availability is guaranteed for 15 years (from memory, but I can check this)
The guy who is importing and distributing them is 30 mins drive from where we live, but this is not an issue now as he has fitters/installers in other parts of the country now.
For my peace of mind, I had begun talking with him about installing a WPB way (like 18 months+) before the grants were announced, so in my opinion he is committed to staying with them long term. One concern I would have with many WPB suppliers that have appeared since the grants were announced, is willl they be there for the long haul!!

It cost just under 11K euros (minus the grant of 4200 euros), for the completely automatic version but I know I got a good price at that. That excl the flue as that is a variable and I think there were some bits and pieces on to that. I can try to find the receipts and let you know the total.

Hope this helps. It does operate like a dream and I think the savings are about 60% of oil. If any other questions please ask. By the way I do not sell for the company, just a satisfied customer. Optimistic
 
Optimistic

You mentioned in a previous mail you had issues with Solar panels. Were they flat or Tubular and why would you not recommend them.
I am at the building stage and had given the WPB and solar panel option serious consideration
 
Optimistic

You mentioned in a previous mail you had issues with Solar panels. Were they flat or Tubular and why would you not recommend them.
I am at the building stage and had given the WPB and solar panel option serious consideration

Hi. We have 8 sq mtrs of flat plate installed on a south facing roof at 40 degree pitch, for two of us in the house and we are hot high DHW users. It is heating a 800 ltr buffer tank. We obviously did not have the heating on for the summer, so solar was contributing to DHW needs only.

I am told and the research that is done says that tubes are about 15% more efficient that flat. They cost more and need maintenance when they loose vacum etc, can break if hit. Though I think there are systems coming out now that are better.

We were going with oil and solar to begin with, and thus installed solar. We decided to go with WPB (I had researched it all at least 12 mths before the grants came on) and drop the oil, when the grants came in. A couple of people advised/recommended that we make provision for solar and install later if not happy with WPB. But with what we heard about how good solar was we decided to go ahead with it anyway. A decision we now regret.

I have met several people that have solar installed and they are not to impressed with it's contribution. Of course it does not make me happy to admit that we spent money on something that is not operating. I also met a plumber at a trade counter and happend to get talking with him. He says that solar will never pay for itself. Heatpumps and WPB are ok in his opinion. I tend to agree.

We get most solar gain in summer time (well bar the summer of 2007!!) How much does it cost to heat DHW for our summer months? Heating is the higher bill and not DHW requirements, in my opinion. So we spend, in my situation, as I missed the grant, 5500 euros plus the solar tank to save what is the smaller bill.

The hotest water we got from solar was 51 degrees C. Unless there is something wrong with our system and I have contacted our supplier/fitter without much success so far to check to see if there is something wrong with our system, but he will not return or accept my call.

Compare this with wood pellets. I cannot give exact figures for what our DHW heating bill would be with pellets, but I do think it would be small.

In hind sight (wonderful thing to have) what would we do? We would install WPB no doubt as I see the savings to be made there. In a new build especially, one has to install a heating system anyway. oil will cost 1500 plus, incl tank and base conservatively, add this to the grant which I think had been decreased now and I think that a good pellet boiler becomes more attractive again. One cannot incl the cost of controls as they are also needed for oil. We have had no problem in getting pellets bulk, though it was a bit tight last winter. This year is ok.

I hope the above makes sense as I don't think I explain myself great writing, but if there are any questions, please ask. I do not sell WPB by the way. Optimistic
 
Hi Optimistic - I think over time, as more of these systems are installed, people will start to relay their experiences - such as you have - so thanks for that as there are not to many people publishing their findings right now.

One observation though is that 8sqmtrs should be sufficient - but an 800ltr tank is quite big so its going to struggle there I think. A typical solar tank would be 300ltrs. That 'may' be a contributor. Did your installer say that 8sqm would heat that tank easily enough?

Also another major contributor of course is the efficiency of the collectors themselves - does the solar controller provide readings of the temp at the collectors? Are the pipes from the collectors well insulated & is the travel distance to the tank very far. Might be worth looking at those.
What's done is done of course & I would not expect you to add much more money to enhance the solar water heating - but at least it is preheating your water anyway - which is still a help.

ninsaga
 
Optimistic,
Can you tell me who you got your solar panels from and did they install them. If not, did you get your plumber to install. Did he have any experience in installing solar panels (just wondering how difficult it really is)


 
Hi.
The digital readings and solar pump readings match, to within a degree or two the clock readings on the station. The distance from the panels to the pumping station/tank is the height of the house, 25-30 feet approx. The are well insualted with high grade armour flex insulation, what the supplier recommended. The panels were fitted by the supplier, reason being. He quoted 1100 euro for fitting and the VAT was charged at 13.5 % VAT for fitting and materials. If I fitted myself I would have paid 21% VAT on the materials. I figured that the difference between did not justify me fitting them myself.

Yes, I agree that it is a big tank to heat, BUT if there are only two people in the house, that are not high DHW users, surely over a few days it will keep heating the water to higher temperatures, IN summer time, when the space heating is off. I understand that winter is a different story and do not expect it to be capable of heating the tank then.

There is nothing to fitting the system oneself, put the panels on the roof, connect the pipes and insulate and fill and bleed the system with antifreeze in it, connect the temp sensors. To re-inforce this. When we were at the building show in Milstreet two weeks ago, one supplier said that they can supply the panels and fit them yourself and they can arrange to have you registered for fitting to get the grant :)

Our supplier was Solaris in Co. Cork (hope it is ok to name) and with what we have expereinced in service from them we would not recommend them to anyone. The reason we went with this company in the first place was they have been selling solar systems the longest.

I will keep people posted. Optimistic
 
Hi

I am considering going with a wood pellet boiler in new build. Can anyone clear up a couple of queries for me.

During the Summer months can space heating be switched of, and the WPB only used for heating water?

Will the WPB work well with radiators, instead of UFH?

I am building in the midlands, anyone have good experiences with a boiler/installer they would recommend.

Many Thanks
 
Family member installed one, it does a great job and is about 50-60% the cost of oil,
Major headache for him was finding somebody who was actually able to properly install it.
Will certainly add value to house.
 
Hi

I am considering going with a wood pellet boiler in new build. Can anyone clear up a couple of queries for me.

During the Summer months can space heating be switched of, and the WPB only used for heating water?

Will the WPB work well with radiators, instead of UFH?

I am building in the midlands, anyone have good experiences with a boiler/installer they would recommend.

Hi, WPB can be used for whatever you want/require heating for, well at least ours does. No problem with radiators only, a mix of rads and UFH and DHW. This is the way ours is connected. Our fitter/supplier had fitters/installers/agents in the midlands now. He fits there himself also, well at least he used. I am not an agent for the Windhager, just happy with it.


Optimistic.
 
Lads,

after reading thru the posts I still see no proof that pellet burners are economical. The only real proof is reporting the total cost for a complete year. Given that and the size of the house you'll be able to estimate. If you dont go thru a winter then you just cannot say.

On solar panels - avoid - they dont work.

On wind turbines - avoid - they dont work.

South facing windows - they do work and they're cheap.

Avoid any heating source that supplments or pre heats the water - pointless - either it does the job 100% or not.

Fact - Cost of heating the hot water needs for my house with 4 clean people and a daily clothes wash and dishwash = one euro. GET THAT!. Conslcusion - never consider the saving to be made on providing hot water - its just not worth making.

Undefloor heating - fantastic. However the system and esp. the boiler must be installed properly - I've found that many plumers and electricians that install under floor heating systems do them wrong. Mine did 6 UHF systems a year and still did them wrong. UHF systems get a bad press because of wrong plumber installation.

Wood pellet burners.
Two of my neighbours have them. Have yet to go thru one winter so I cant say how they are getting on. You'll have to add a high rise silo - expensive and ugly.

Geothermal - a guy in a heating boiler wholesalers said surface piping systems dont work and the drill down pipe method does - take from that what you will.

btw one of the neighbours wood pellet burners was wired wrong and as a result was running 4 times more expensive than my gas boiler.
 
Lads,

after reading thru the posts I still see no proof that pellet burners are economical. The only real proof is reporting the total cost for a complete year. Given that and the size of the house you'll be able to estimate. If you dont go thru a winter then you just cannot say.

On solar panels - avoid - they dont work.

On wind turbines - avoid - they dont work.

South facing windows - they do work and they're cheap.

Avoid any heating source that supplments or pre heats the water - pointless - either it does the job 100% or not.

Fact - Cost of heating the hot water needs for my house with 4 clean people and a daily clothes wash and dishwash = one euro. GET THAT!. Conslcusion - never consider the saving to be made on providing hot water - its just not worth making.

Undefloor heating - fantastic. However the system and esp. the boiler must be installed properly - I've found that many plumers and electricians that install under floor heating systems do them wrong. Mine did 6 UHF systems a year and still did them wrong. UHF systems get a bad press because of wrong plumber installation.

Wood pellet burners.
Two of my neighbours have them. Have yet to go thru one winter so I cant say how they are getting on. You'll have to add a high rise silo - expensive and ugly.

Geothermal - a guy in a heating boiler wholesalers said surface piping systems dont work and the drill down pipe method does - take from that what you will.

btw one of the neighbours wood pellet burners was wired wrong and as a result was running 4 times more expensive than my gas boiler.

Hi, What heating system do you use? I agree that with a lot of installers, they do not know what they are doing, just charging huge money for work they are learning about. With storing wood pellets, you do not need a high rise silo as you state, an area2 mtrs cubed is the max for pellet storage. We are building ours out of 3/4 inch ply wood incsaed in 3 inch angle iron, total cost about somewhere about 300-400 euros. I don't have an exact figure are waiting for the iron still.
 
I use gas. Two years ago when I did a new build there were no incentives to go alternative. Will swap systems when I see one that genuinely works. There will be more in the future and they will get cheaper and smaller. The 'real' cost of going alternative is still pretty huge.
The thing is those who do try something new are very relucant to admit if it is not performing as well as the hoped.
It was a neighbour that built the large silo - I guess to economise on refils.

My experience of plumbers unfortunately is that few are actually good at their jobs. Luckily for them there is always demand.
 
I use gas. Two years ago when I did a new build there were no incentives to go alternative. Will swap systems when I see one that genuinely works. There will be more in the future and they will get cheaper and smaller. The 'real' cost of going alternative is still pretty huge.
The thing is those who do try something new are very relucant to admit if it is not performing as well as the hoped.
It was a neighbour that built the large silo - I guess to economise on refils.

My experience of plumbers unfortunately is that few are actually good at their jobs. Luckily for them there is always demand.

demand will change now, I think. If something is not working I will admit it. Read previous postings re solar. I spent 5.5 k euro on them and it is a waste of money. Would have been better to have ahd the satisfaction of burning it. I can never see it paying for itself. UNLESS there is something serioulsy wrong with mine :) I am happy with the WPB. Thanks for confirming the heating system you use.
 
I have a WPB in use for the last year and am pretty happy with it. It requires more maintenance than an oil boiler but this is about 10 mins every week or two to empty the boiler and clean ash off the inside. You can get one that does not require this maintenance but they cost about 4 thousand euro more so we decided that 10 mins maintenance every week or so would be better option.

We also got a DIY pellet store built in our garage using plywood and blocks which came to about 450.

I would say the cost of heating the house over the year will come in at about 650 euros which includes hot water and radiators for the year. We haven't used the immersion once so far and have used the electric shower very rarely. The house is about 2700 sq feet timberframe. During building we did put in LOTS of insulation (hemp) and made the house as airtight as possible and have a HRV system which I think all help.

Lastbuilders
 
Wood pellet boilers should not be noicy, you have options of a feeder system or feed them manually. Bulk storage or bags, The choices are there only be carefull that the pellets are to the standard that your boiler manufacturer has in its manual. As the wrong quality pellets can cause problems.

I am going to install a pellet boiler in my house, we also sell them, this also gives options do I want a boiler as the oil or gas boiler (outside the house) or do I want a stove with a hot water option or without.

There are so many options and so many boilers out there, if you do decide to buy one, make sure it gets commissioned by a manufacturer trained engineer, as all boiler are basically the same they al cary different software.

The prices of the pellets Vary, but so dooes the quality, consistancy is great, Ask your commissioning servicing engineer wich ones he or she likes best. Get the best quality pellet you can afford. This will ensure your boiler works without trouble, wrong fuel can be costly (ie. to hard a pellet, to long a pellet to soft powdery can cause a real problem witht he feeder system)

Do remember, a pellet or log or a combination of both boilers are a life choice as you do have to do some maintenance yourself, also the servicing cost is higher as a wood boiler stove takes a lot longer to service than a gas or oil. On the day of service they can not be used as they need to be cold when serviced. Also the biomass boilers tend to be more expensive than a top of the range oil or gas boiler.

If you do not mind the above, go for it. You will help the environment, and you will have no carbon taxes to pay when this kicks in after the budget.
 
Lads,

after reading thru the posts I still see no proof that pellet burners are economical. The only real proof is reporting the total cost for a complete year. Given that and the size of the house you'll be able to estimate. If you dont go thru a winter then you just cannot say.
quite possibly true.

On solar panels - avoid - they dont work.
Nonsense.

On wind turbines - avoid - they dont work.
A lot of rubbish out there, I agree. Big commercial ones do, but there again that explains the price.........

South facing windows - they do work and they're cheap.
...so long as your planners agree great. If not, tough, you'll have to go with what they say - energy efficiency won't come into and we don't all have the ability to rotate our houses......

Avoid any heating source that supplments or pre heats the water - pointless - either it does the job 100% or not.
Again, nonsense. It's physics. Water that's 40 deg only needs a 20 deg lift to 60. 10 degree water needs a 50 degree lift. The bigger the lift, the more energy it'll take to heat it. Sounds to me like you have control system issues..........I know I do with mine, btw.......

Fact - Cost of heating the hot water needs for my house with 4 clean people and a daily clothes wash and dishwash = one euro. GET THAT!. Conslcusion - never consider the saving to be made on providing hot water - its just not worth making.
....can't say, my solar heats most of mine........so how to cost ?

Undefloor heating - fantastic. However the system and esp. the boiler must be installed properly - I've found that many plumers and electricians that install under floor heating systems do them wrong. Mine did 6 UHF systems a year and still did them wrong. UHF systems get a bad press because of wrong plumber installation.
Yes. Damhik......

Wood pellet burners.
Two of my neighbours have them. Have yet to go thru one winter so I cant say how they are getting on. You'll have to add a high rise silo - expensive and ugly.
Big, yes. Ugly, indeed. Expensive. Yep.

Geothermal - a guy in a heating boiler wholesalers said surface piping systems dont work and the drill down pipe method does - take from that what you will.
Maybe so, but the glaciers determine whether your deep drill works or not, and unless you've a movable site, you won't know 'til you drill. Expensive guesswork.

btw one of the neighbours wood pellet burners was wired wrong and as a result was running 4 times more expensive than my gas boiler.
...can happen to any system....damhik.........
 
Back
Top