We should nudge away, but be slow to exclude. Some of these other countries have a past history of authoritarianism. This graph is interesting when talking about capacity (though I can't speak to its veracity).
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We should need far fewer beds. I had a hernia operation about 25 years ago and we in hospital for 3 days. I had it done again about 10 years ago and was in and out in 6 hours. 20 years ago heart surgery required cracking open the entire rib cage and required weeks in hospital. Now it's usually done through your groin and a few days in hospital.We should nudge away, but be slow to exclude. Some of these other countries have a history authoritarianism. This graph is interesting when talking about capacity (though I can't speak to its veracity).
We should need far fewer beds. I had a hernia operation about 25 years ago and we in hospital for 3 days. I had it done again about 10 years ago and was in and out in 6 hours. 20 years ago heart surgery required cracking open the entire rib cage and required weeks in hospital. Now it's usually done through your groin and a few days in hospital.
So you deliberately chose emotive language, evoking a brutal regime for the purposes of exaggerating the situation.I could have. I wanted to use a word with only negative connotations. 'Discrimination' is on the fence; we discriminate all the time.
That actually doesn't make sense.When will I find that attempts to control others language is used?
How do any of the issues you have raised apply more to the unvaccinated? Are you suggesting if we had more ICU capacity that it would mainly be occupied by the vaccinated? It seems more a list of common gripes with the health service with little relevance to vaccination status.Not doubt a multitude of reasons. Capacity, starting from a low base anyway, hasn't been ramped up much over the last 20 months. The health system has long been ailing . . bed-blockers, 100's on trolleys, interminable waiting lists, two-tier care. The unvaccinated are just part of the mix, plenty of smokers and obese taking up beds. The popular fixation with the unvaccinated is overzealous.
Yea, and if there was an injection that stopped fat people from being fat (and I don't mean strychnine) then I'm sure most of them would take it. Ditto smokers. The fix for the unvaccinated is a tiny jab in the arm. People need to cop on.So you deliberately chose emotive language, evoking a brutal regime for the purposes of exaggerating the situation.
That actually doesn't make sense.
How do any of the issues you have raised apply more to the unvaccinated? Are you suggesting if we had more ICU capacity that it would mainly be occupied by the vaccinated? It seems more a list of common gripes with the health service with little relevance to vaccination status.
The unvaccinated are not simply 'just a part of the mix', they are a significantly over-represented majority.
Please.So you deliberately chose emotive language, evoking a brutal regime for the purposes of exaggerating the situation.
I seems clear to me. Maybe, you're right.That actually doesn't make sense.
Nope. Just that if we had more capacity we wouldn't be looking a lockdown/exclusion measures right now and Covid might burn itself out before such was necessitated.Are you suggesting if we had more ICU capacity that it would mainly be occupied by the vaccinated?
Perhaps that's part of the problem, the question as phrased does not make sense, the mixing of tenses and singulars/plurals renders it impossible to know for sure what you were trying to ask.I seems clear to me. Maybe, you're right.
But we have the capacity we have. Our restrictions shouldn't relate to some aspirational state where we have the health service of our dreams. You're clearly against the current restrictions on the unvaccinated, so we can only assess that in terms of the current state of the health service.Nope. Just that if we had more capacity we wouldn't be looking a lockdown/exclusion measures right now and Covid might burn itself out before such was necessitated.
Or the last 8% could get vaccinated and we'd free up about half the beds taken up by Covid patients. That's a simpler option. And cheaper; we have thrown billions at the health service and it hasn't improved things much.Nope. Just that if we had more capacity we wouldn't be looking a lockdown/exclusion measures right now and Covid might burn itself out before such was necessitated.
Yes I've had same thought... hard to tell, but curious to know how many of the unvaccinated have had covid already, although I'm not sure how much protection an Alpha variant infection spring 2020 would afford against Delta variant today.Surely it must burn out soon. Of the 5m of us we have approx. 1m under 12's, they aren't clogging hospitals with Covid. We have 4m others, 3.5m of whom are fully vaccinated. We have had over 0.5m confirmed cases and likely multiples of that unconfirmed. Of the 0.5m over 12 and unvaccinated, there can't be that big a pool who haven't yet had Covid and are likely to end in an ICU bed when they do.
You likely didn't even read the overview!We should nudge away, but be slow to exclude. Some of these other countries have a past history of authoritarianism. This graph is interesting when talking about capacity (though I can't speak to its veracity).
There were approximately 14.2 thousand hospital beds in Ireland in 2019. There may have been a change in methodology or definitions which may have led to the sharp decline in hospital beds after 2009.
Healthcare employees in Ireland
Over the same period the number of health employees has been increasing in Ireland In 2018, there were almost 65.7 thousand individuals employed hospitals in Ireland, since the year 2000 this figure has increased by over 23 thousand. While in the period since 2000 the number of general practitioners in Ireland has more than doubled to 4.25 thousand in 2018.
Spending indicators on health
Ireland’s expenditure on healthcare was 7.1 percent of GDP in 2017. In comparison to other European countries, Ireland ranks relatively low on health expenditure. Switzerland had the highest share of expenditure on health, spending 12.2 percent of its GDP in this year.
You likely didn't even read the overview!
It really annoys me when GDP is used as an indicator for health spending when everyone knows that our GDP is grossly inflated. Our spending relative to *GNI is very high. In real terms we are amongst the highest spenders on healthcare in both relative and absolute terms. When adjusted for demographics it's even higher. In reality we have one of the best funded healthcare systems in the world.Spending indicators on health
Ireland’s expenditure on healthcare was 7.1 percent of GDP in 2017. In comparison to other European countries, Ireland ranks relatively low on health expenditure. Switzerland had the highest share of expenditure on health, spending 12.2 percent of its GDP in this year.
Argo.Perhaps that's part of the problem, the question as phrased does not make sense, the mixing of tenses and singulars/plurals renders it impossible to know for sure what you were trying to ask.
As stated, I was only referring to the graph, which I though was interesting. They may or may not have changed how they count these things . . perhaps this is a better graph. In any event, not much was done to increase capacity over the past 20 months. Currently we have fewer than 1/3 of the numbers in hospital with covid than we did in January and 100 fewer in ICU . . and the curve looks much flatter.You likely didn't even read the overview!
That is an interesting point re: earlier closing times removing an incentive to get vaccinated.Imposing restrictions , such as earlier closing times in pubs and clubs, on vaccinated people, will only drive the unvaccinated further away from getting vaccinated. Holohan wanting vaccinated people to avoid Christmas parties and stay at home over the festive season won't help either.
The unvaccinated already know vaccines are fairly useless in preventing infection and transmission so the only selling point is that vaccines reduce hospitalizations and death, which they do.
But sars cov2 is harmless to most people anyway so the unvaccinated will know that they are unlikely to end up sick and/or in hospital if they get infected.
Some will also have natural immunity from prior infection.
The educated among us know the vaccines are very effective at preventing infection and transmission, not 100% but very effective. These are well proven facts.The unvaccinated already know vaccines are fairly useless in preventing infection and transmission so the only selling point is that vaccines reduce hospitalizations and death, which they do.
Will they? We have seen numerous reports of people getting infected twice and I know of one person who has been infected 3 times.Some will also have natural immunity from prior infection.
AgreedWill they? We have seen numerous reports of people getting infected twice and I know of one person who has been infected 3 times.
Don't we have a soccer player who has been infected twice.
"Natural immunity " is an oxymoron as you can develop a resistance to a virus that resistance wanes too, look at the common cold, flu, pneumonia to name a few.
Vaccines, anti virals , immunity by infection are not panacea in themselves .
Smallpox has and we just don't know what ones have just died out the first SARS virus kind of just died out by itself.No virus has ever been eradicated they live on our medical technology has simply kept them in check.
HIV/AIDS is a very different virus to COVID.HIV/AIDS has killed 40m people, best estimate, probably more. There are viruses that we simply cannot fight as humans, and Covid might be one.
The educated among us know the vaccines are very effective at preventing infection and transmission, not 100% but very effective. These are well proven facts.
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