Will we Become a Lawless Society?

R

roker

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I can see Ireland becoming a lawless society; it has already started with the withholding of the household charge and septic tanks. Next people will not be taxing insuring and maintaining their cars, they only have money for food, they still need go shopping and some need to go to work, their cars are essential to ever day life. TV licence will not be paid, refuge charges will not be paid with rubbish left in the streets, dental hygiene will be none existent, everyone cannot be taken to court, and even if they are, they cannot get blood out of a stone. There will be more crime, break-ins, shoplifting etc. and poor resources to catch the culprits, we will stop using banks and barter to save on taxes, It will be survival of the fittest. What a mess
 
roker said:
I can see Ireland becoming a lawless society; it has already started with the withholding of the household charge and septic tanks. Next people will not be taxing insuring and maintaining their cars, they only have money for food, they still need go shopping and some need to go to work, their cars are essential to ever day life. TV licence will not be paid, refuge charges will not be paid with rubbish left in the streets, dental hygiene will be none existent, everyone cannot be taken to court, and even if they are, they cannot get blood out of a stone. There will be more crime, break-ins, shoplifting etc. and poor resources to catch the culprits, we will stop using banks and barter to save on taxes, It will be survival of the fittest. What a mess
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did you ever consider that its maybe the 'laws' the need to be looked at!!
 
Hey Guys! Let's give Roker some respect here. He posed a legitimate question and I think the answer is Yes.

1. Official figures show that 30% of households did not pay the household charge. I reckon the figure is much higher.
2. I have driven through housing estates where refuse bins have been left and left and left. Eventually, the City Council had to take the waste despite being unpaid.
3. TV Licence - Interesting to see how many television sets are licensed; I bet the figure is way short of the mark. Remember for prosecution purposes the TV Licence Inspector (usually clerical workers from An Post) must see the TV set. For that he must get your permission to enter your premises - you dont have to give it and a search warrant would be necessary - then sue for wrongful prosecution if that is the case and you have no TV set.
4. As for car tax etc it is difficult to imagine the Gardaí rigidly enforcing the law with so much cuts in their wages.
5. Let's say you have to visit A+E as a patient, you will be treated irrespective of your paying the charge. I dont know how private hospitals fare in this respect but public hospitals see everybody.
6. People are not stupid; nobody who caused our recession and our banks to go caput has been put in prison. Why should decent people fear the law? Unless, of course, there is one law for the rich and another for the poor.
7. Even our criminals (sorry those engaged in criminality) know of the revolving doors in our prisons where many serve relatively nil sentences.

Unemployment is bad enough here and the answer is emigration which has limited success. Jobs in nursing, banks. civil service, Garda Force, Eircom, ESB, local authorities, hospitals, etc have dried up and will never recover. I think Roker is right, we are heading for a relatively lawless society.
 
Leper said:
5. Let's say you have to visit A+E as a patient, you will be treated irrespective of your paying the charge. I dont know how private hospitals fare in this respect but public hospitals see everybody.
6. People are not stupid; nobody who caused our recession and our banks to go caput has been put in prison. Why should decent people fear the law? Unless, of course, there is one law for the rich and another for the poor.
7. Even our criminals (sorry those engaged in criminality) know of the revolving doors in our prisons where many serve relatively nil sentences.
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I think these are key points, and I have to agree. People can only respect something that is worthy of respect. Do our lawmakers deserve our respect?

In democracies the law is enforced mainly by people agreeing to sets of rules - those who don't agree with the rules are usually in the minority. But in Ireland that minority is set to grow as laws are used to prop up an overfed bureaucracy, and as the law is seen not to be on the side of the majority of decent folk.
 
I was talking to a friend about this very topic a whe ago and I think that a very important distinction needs to be made. If large groups of people decide to "break the law" by not paying a TV licence or the household charge then they should not be labeled with the same "lawless" tag as people who steal, rob and do physical harm to others. I don't think society will disintegrate into lawlessness because large amounts of people are refusing to do something that society as such does not deem to be a "crime".

Personally I believe that Ireland is still a very law abiding country and a safe place to live (if you avoid urban environments at weekend's when the pubs close); and I don't see a corresponding increase in burglaries, at least not yet.
 
Once an individual becomes involved in criminality, where is the incentive to stop?

There are people who, 8 years ago, being financially insolvent, having a poor credit rating, missing loan payments would have been something that they thought they could never bring upon themselves but now it has happened.

Fear of a criminal record has been a great deterrent but I think that if we see the criminalisation of non-payment of various taxes, what is to stop a person from carrying on with other crimes seen as victimless? If car thieves, burglars, shoplifters are not being incarcerated, the chances are that non payment of tax due to inability will not lead to jail time.

So once someone has a criminal record, what is to stop them from carrying on with crime?
 
Chris said:
Personally I believe that Ireland is still a very law abiding country and a safe place to live (if you avoid urban environments at weekend's when the pubs close); and I don't see a corresponding increase in burglaries, at least not yet.
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You forgot to thank the Gardai for their essential role in making this happen.
 
The question was "Will we Become a Lawless Society" not Are We a lawless Society
 
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