Will Local Authorities collect the Household Charge by going door to door?

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Leper

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There is much talk of how many residences are in the country and how many of them are liable for the household charge. It doesnt matter whether there are 1.5 million or 20.5 million dwellings. The household charge will have to be collected.

It isn't going to happen by people on forums screaming that the charge should be paid or radio and tv pleading by TDs giving their reasons.

Wars are won or lost by the infantry. The local authorities will have to employ collectors who will travel door to door and prosecute the people who wont pay. There is no other way. It is similiar to the situation in the sixties when radio and television licences were introduced.

All the cackling of whether the charge is justified or not is now a side issue. The local authorities must act. Some job vacancies coming up folks? And with high commissions? Might suit retired people. Get your CVs ready.
 
Would cost more to collect than it would take it.

The anti-change campaign would just tell everyone to tell the collectors that they are tenants.
 
jhegarty said:
Would cost more to collect than it would take it.
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As if that would stop the government. Since when has wasting money ever been a deterrent?

@Padraigb - surely its obvious why one would need to be brave? Because they are likely to face a raft of abuse from people against paying it. In case you havent noticed this has been one of the hottest topics recently on a lot of online forums, letters to newspapers, conversations among people - there has been a lot of strong feeling on it. Half the liable population have refused to pay. I cant honestly believe that you would be unaware of this? Seriously?
 
Leper said:
The local authorities will have to employ collectors who will travel door to door and prosecute the people who wont pay.
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Since this is a property precursor tax levied on the house owner and not the house occupier I have by doubts how effective door to door collection schemes might be.

Ive posted here before but I think the government would be better off designing, building and operating a proper electronic relational data base.

So data base designers, developers, operators, consultants have your CV's ready!
 
truthseeker said:
@Padraigb - surely its obvious why one would need to be brave? Because they are likely to face a raft of abuse from people against paying it. In case you havent noticed this has been one of the hottest topics recently on a lot of online forums, letters to newspapers, conversations among people - there has been a lot of strong feeling on it. Half the liable population have refused to pay. I cant honestly believe that you would be unaware of this? Seriously?
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I am well aware the the household charge is an unpopular imposition. But if somebody is employed by a local authority to ask people to pay it, the job should not require particular courage.
 
As mentioned above the "door to door" approach is likely to be a waste of time because this is a tax on property owners and not property occupiers.

If local or central government were to launch such a (foolish imo) campaign then the employees/agents going door to door would need to be as brave as the reviled TV inspectors and would need to have some statutory status. They would also need to be trained with proper objectives and targets.

As another poster mentioned many people will simply answer I "dont know who owns the property!".

Better spending limited resources in building a proper functioning data base as described above.
 
Whatever about courage employees/agents charged with such a foolish (imo) task would need to be properly trained to deal carry out the task.

Perhaps the job could be contracted out to An Post or better still out to the private sector?

I reckon the amount of courage required would be somewhat more that a courier/postal delivery person, something equal to a tv licence inspector or social welfare inspector and not quiet as much as a bailiff or repo person.
 
ajapale said:
I reckon the amount of courage required would be somewhat more that a courier/postal delivery person, something equal to a tv licence inspector or social welfare inspector and not quiet as much as a bailiff or repo person.
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I think it would be a similar amount of courage needed by an FF politician to call door to door campaigning for the last election. None did in my area anyway.

I think it would be more than needed by a tv licence inspector, the HC is more unpopular than the tv licence charge.

As already pointed out by apajale anyway, completely silly idea regardless as its not a tax on the occupier.
 
Surely the CSO has a database of all houses/property in the country?

I'm sure a way could be figured out how to use that database properly.

The exercise of calling to doors may not be cost effective initially but if property owners get caught in the net then future charges will make it cost effective 'cos there's only one place the HC is going ... and that's up!
 
PaddyBloggit said:
Surely the CSO has a database of all houses/property in the country?

I'm sure a way could be figured out how to use that database properly.
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I have made the point elsewhere but the problem is a lack of understanding of what a modern electronic relational (GIS) data base involves. When its done correctly its great but when its not done correctly it is an unmitigated disaster.

ajapale said:
I think its important to know what we mean by a "database" in this context.

In this context what is required is a comprehensive properly constructed electronic relational database that is maintained, searchable and up to date.

Attempting to overlay a "database" on old manual, fragmented ad hoc (often manual) systems is doomed to (abject) failure ( just look at ppars etc).

The Book of Kells is fine database but it is not maintained, searchable and up to date!

Im not a database designer but I do understand the importance of well designed planned and defined electronic systems to refelect reality in real time.

Proper data-entity relationship models need to be developed in which terms (and the relationship between them) need to be defined (owner, property, name address, household, unique identifier, geographic location, valuation, occupier etc)
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The local authorities stopped door to door rent collection years ago because of attacks on staff and theft of money.

The LAs are hardly likely to re-introduce door to door collections in this era of Health & Safety.
 
Like I said earlier, wars are won by the infantry usually with house to house fighting. It is the same with the Household Charge. It is a formiddable task, but it has to be done. There is no easy way.

Many here wont remember the television and radio licence door to door campaigns of the 1960s. You even had to have a separate licence for your car radio.

At the time there were dissenters who wanted more Irish spoken on radio and television and refused point-blank to pay up. Whether we like it or not a door-to-door long term campaign will have to be fought on the Household Charge and people will have to be prosecuted. Otherwise, the charge might as well be dropped.
 
Leper said:
Many here wont remember the television and radio licence door to door campaigns of the 1960s.
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I wasnt around in the 1960s, but I am assured by those who were that Ireland was a different place in those days, and a lot safer for the likes of door to door bullying campaigns.
 
truthseeker said:
If you cant see why this would be then I just dont know what to say to you.
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I wouldn't know what to say to him either. Such collectors would be a million times more hated than say for example wheel clampers. And some wheel clampers are in wheelchairs now . One in Dublin got hit with a lump hammer recently and is paralysed permanently. They have to wear stab proof vests etc.
Anyone going from door to door needs proper training.
 
bullworth said:
I wouldn't know what to say to him either. Such collectors would be a million times more hated than say for example wheel clampers. And some wheel clampers are in wheelchairs now . One in Dublin got hit with a lump hammer recently and is paralysed permanently. They have to wear stab proof vests etc.
Anyone going from door to door needs proper training.
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Thats terrible bullworth, but I completely agree with you - such collectors would be more hated.

Im genuinely taken aback that someone would not be able to see that.
 
Leper said:
Some job vacancies coming up folks? And with high commissions? Might suit retired people. Get your CVs ready.
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It's more likely that they will redeploy existing staff to collect the Household Charges. There have been no new jobs created in the Public Sector for quite a few years now.
 
Main thing about this idea of "door to door" collections is that it's open to abuse... How can you trust the person at the door is a legit person - someone from local authority? They have ID - anyone know what the ID should look like?

Just another "fiasco" in relation to the HC if this door to door collection goes ahead...
 
cashier said:
What happened to all this talk about contacting the ESB to get the required information??
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You do not have to be the owner of a property to have a bill in your name. What if the ESB bill is in the tenants' name ? An ESB bill does not prove ownership.
Isn't there a land registry with all this information contained within already which is updated whenever someone buys or sells Irish land/property otherwise how else do people prove ownership to a buyer when selling or to a bank for mortgaging etc ? Why couldnt' that have been used ? Is it not computerized ?
 
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