Why long term social welfare should be cut in the Budget

TheBigShort

Frequent Poster
Why? Surely everyone should be expected to contribute something even if only for a short period of time before getting back on track.

From my observations, if people were compelled to work to some degree,I think the short and long term numbers on the dole would fall dramatically. I see lots of people claiming dole who also do a few days work on the side. The occasional 1 or 2 gets caught, receives a warning and signs off.
A tough stance on the dole would clear the air
To qualify for JSA you need to be unemployed for 4 out of 7 days in a week. It is perfectly fine to work 3 days and claim welfare, but only if your earnings from 3 days work are below a certain level.
 

TheBigShort

Frequent Poster
I'm well aware of that
Cool, so it's just people who are fraudulently claiming that you want to target for welfare cuts? I'd have no issue there.
That would be significantly different to cutting welfare on those who are not defrauding the system. My understanding is that this topic is about cutting long-term welfare benefits for those who don't work?
This would be distinct from those who are actively seeking but finding it difficult to get work, yes?
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
BS, for me it's not about saving money in the short term. It is about nudging people in the right direction in the medium to long term. A welfare trap is a breeding ground for unfulfilled lives, crime, depression and other social problems. Not to beat the same drum all the time but I'd like to see any money saved going into early education. Breaking the cycle of inter-generational unemployment will take generations. We need a long term plan and we need to stick to it. What we absolutely don't need is to enable people to opt out and live off their neighbours.
 

Delboy

Frequent Poster
I just heard Eamon Ryan of the Greens on Newstalk welcome the rumours of an increase in the dole in tomorrow's budget. He said that priority should also be given to restoring the dole to the top level for u-25's.
Roisin Shorthall of the Soc Dems was in agreement on those points.

Thats the big ideas we need for the 21st century right there:(
 

Firefly

Frequent Poster
I just heard Eamon Ryan of the Greens on Newstalk welcome the rumours of an increase in the dole in tomorrow's budget. He said that priority should also be given to restoring the dole to the top level for u-25's.
Roisin Shorthall of the Soc Dems was in agreement on those points.

Thats the big ideas we need for the 21st century right there:(
I suspect the demands are coming from FF who are pulling the strings and are scared to death of SF (who would probably raise all welfare rates to the point of putting the country under).
 

TheBigShort

Frequent Poster
BS, for me it's not about saving money in the short term. It is about nudging people in the right direction in the medium to long term. A welfare trap is a breeding ground for unfulfilled lives, crime, depression and other social problems. Not to beat the same drum all the time but I'd like to see any money saved going into early education. Breaking the cycle of inter-generational unemployment will take generations. We need a long term plan and we need to stick to it. What we absolutely don't need is to enable people to opt out and live off their neighbours.
I'm not disputing that there are anomalies in welfare system that create traps. And I don't take issue with what you say above with regard to breaking inter-generational poverty. I simply oppose the broad stroke generalisations aimed at people on welfare.
If people are 'opting-out' and living on welfare, that needs to be tackled. But not at the expense of those who have worked hard, who are educated, who do contribute, but for one reason or another, find themselves on the wrong side of luck. I would consider these people to be the lions share of social welfare recipients.
 
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TheBigShort

Frequent Poster
I just heard Eamon Ryan of the Greens on Newstalk welcome the rumours of an increase in the dole in tomorrow's budget. He said that priority should also be given to restoring the dole to the top level for u-25's.
Roisin Shorthall of the Soc Dems was in agreement on those points.

Thats the big ideas we need for the 21st century right there:(
It might be of interest to observe, if there is any increase in social welfare, is there a corresponding increase in claimants?
 

jackswift

Frequent Poster
Why not put high vise vests on them and put them out picking rubbish cleaning our parks make them work for there few bob, and maybe give them bit extra.I do a bit of cycling and the rubbish on the side of our roads is a disgrace, a win win for everyone don't you think
Better still try and educate the brain dead fools to stop dumping rubbish.
 

Firefly

Frequent Poster
So, far from doing the sensible thing and reducing the dole over the longer term, it looks like the dole is not only getting a hike, but so too the "Christmas Bonus" for being on the dole.

"Congratulations, you've had a great year on the dole. To show our appreciation, please accept this bonus for all your hard work. Be sure to continue this work into 2018 and all going well we may be able to pay you even more money next year. Keep up the good work, your country needs you!".

Talk about re-inforcing a welfare trap!!
 

galway_blow_in

Frequent Poster
I just heard Eamon Ryan of the Greens on Newstalk welcome the rumours of an increase in the dole in tomorrow's budget. He said that priority should also be given to restoring the dole to the top level for u-25's.
Roisin Shorthall of the Soc Dems was in agreement on those points.

Thats the big ideas we need for the 21st century right there:(
how is that worse than raising the OAP ?
 

Vanessa

Frequent Poster
So, far from doing the sensible thing and reducing the dole over the longer term, it looks like the dole is not only getting a hike, but so too the "Christmas Bonus" for being on the dole.

"Congratulations, you've had a great year on the dole. To show our appreciation, please accept this bonus for all your hard work. Be sure to continue this work into 2018 and all going well we may be able to pay you even more money next year. Keep up the good work, your country needs you!".

Talk about re-inforcing a welfare trap!!
And now we are going to give each of your grandparents 1000 euro for minding your kids.
Next year we will see can we extend it to other family members.
 

noproblem

Frequent Poster
No wonder there's people jumping out of lorries to come and stay here, soon be jumping out of planes. A great opportunity for parachute makers and who knows? They may even get a grant
 

Firefly

Frequent Poster
And now we are going to give each of your grandparents 1000 euro for minding your kids.
Next year we will see can we extend it to other family members.
It's effectively a 20e a week increase in the OAP as it won't / can't be enforced.
 
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