Another reason to avoid any comparisons with UK performance was reported in The Guardian and on the BBC news, unsure of other outlets. The NHS has managed to outdo the HSE in buying unusable rubbish masquerading as PPE. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-flown-from-turkey-for-nhs-fail-uk-standards
Why does Ireland seem to be doing better than the UK?
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
- Start date
It's a common problem ...
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Coronavirus: HSE says 20% of delivered protective equipment is unsuitable
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Chinese companies producing faulty testing kits and masks are marring Beijing's attempts to assert leadership in the fight against the coronavirus.
www.latimes.com
www.news18.com/news/india/made-in-china-over-50000-protective-wear-for-medics-junked-by-india-all-donated-by-big-firms-2579533.html
Our [UK] numbers are rubbish estimates, "underestimates" to quote the source, despite adding an arbitrary 5,000 for deaths outside hospitals last Wednesday. The previous lowest estimate I saw published for deaths outside hospitals was between 6,000 and 7,500.
Despite admitting that the numbers are not fit for comparison, or for any other rational purpose, they go on to make the comparisons, which are of course meaningless, but fill newspaper column inches, news bulletins and make the mouth-pieces look all scientific when introducing pretty graphs.
www.theguardian.com
Despite admitting that the numbers are not fit for comparison, or for any other rational purpose, they go on to make the comparisons, which are of course meaningless, but fill newspaper column inches, news bulletins and make the mouth-pieces look all scientific when introducing pretty graphs.
Coronavirus deaths: how does Britain compare with other countries? | David Spiegelhalter
It’s tempting to try to construct a league table, but we’ll have to wait months, if not years, for the true picture, says statistician David Spiegelhalter
www.theguardian.com
losttheplot
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A study done in UL I think and reported on RTE news used death notices from RIP.ie and compared to the same period last year. The difference being attributed to Covid. This is probably a reliable indicator
Can you post a link?
What is 'excess mortality' and how is it calculated?
Laura Hogan talks to Dr Pádraig Mac Carron who explains just how "excess mortality'"shows us the real impact that Covid-19 is having on the national mortality rate.
Made up numbers compared to numbers whose validity is unknown and untestable (RIP.IE has multiple entries for the same death, and may have no entries for others) show us nothing, provide no clarification or insight and again is simply more mathematical masturbation to grab headlines. "Ohh aren't we good, look what we did!"
Yet another good reason not to use the UK as a basis for comparison with how well or badly we are doing in the Channel 4 news.
Despite assurances from Government, civil servants, NHS mandarins about the state of preparedness with PPE stocks for an "influenza pandemic" the reality emerging is painting a different story.
Approximately 45% of the warehoused PPE had passed its "USE BY" date, some by 3,000 days! All syringes and needles were out of date for example.
Investigators found that "USE BY" dates on sticky labels affixed to packaging had had newer labels stuck over them. It is perfectly acceptable to do this :
If this is all true, it would appear that NHS staff died needlessly due to defective equipment issued to them by their employers and not being informed of the fact.
As a matter of good inventory management, stocks of warehoused PPE should be issued as it approaches its use-by date. The inventory level is then replenished to its appropriate stocking level with new purchases. This did not happen with some items being issued for routine use and stcks not replenished.
More to come on this one and please stop the comparisons with the UK as a shining light of performance during the pandemic. It ain't and it never was.
www.channel4.com
[EDIT: Updated Channel 4 link above]
Despite assurances from Government, civil servants, NHS mandarins about the state of preparedness with PPE stocks for an "influenza pandemic" the reality emerging is painting a different story.
Approximately 45% of the warehoused PPE had passed its "USE BY" date, some by 3,000 days! All syringes and needles were out of date for example.
Investigators found that "USE BY" dates on sticky labels affixed to packaging had had newer labels stuck over them. It is perfectly acceptable to do this :
- if the equipment has been re-tested and certified as good independently,
- if the equipment manufacturer is consulted, and
- if the users of the equipment are notified that the equipment may not provide them with the protection they expect.
If this is all true, it would appear that NHS staff died needlessly due to defective equipment issued to them by their employers and not being informed of the fact.
As a matter of good inventory management, stocks of warehoused PPE should be issued as it approaches its use-by date. The inventory level is then replenished to its appropriate stocking level with new purchases. This did not happen with some items being issued for routine use and stcks not replenished.
More to come on this one and please stop the comparisons with the UK as a shining light of performance during the pandemic. It ain't and it never was.
Revealed: PPE stockpile was out-of-date when coronavirus hit UK
Channel 4 News obtains full inventory of the national pandemic stockpile - revealing vital safety gear was years out of date
www.channel4.com
[EDIT: Updated Channel 4 link above]
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Yet another good reason not to use the UK as a basis for comparison with how well or badly we are doing in the Channel 4 news.
Despite assurances from Government, civil servants, NHS mandarins about the state of preparedness with PPE stocks for an "influenza pandemic" the reality emerging is painting a different story.
Approximately 45% of the warehoused PPE had passed its "USE BY" date, some by 3,000 days! All syringes and needles were out of date for example.
Investigators found that "USE BY" dates on sticky labels affixed to packaging had had newer labels stuck over them. It is perfectly acceptable to do this :
Investigators asked to see evidence of re-testing and certification, but to-date, no evidence has been produced for the investigators. There is no evidence that the potential users were notified as is required. No Government or civil service spokesperson was available for comment and the daily briefing has been cancelled.
- if the equipment has been re-tested and certified as good independently,
- if the equipment manufacturer is consulted, and
- if the users of the equipment are notified that the equipment may not provide them with the protection they expect.
If this is all true, it would appear that NHS staff died needlessly due to defective equipment issued to them by their employers and not being informed of the fact.
As a matter of good inventory management, stocks of warehoused PPE should be issued as it approaches its use-by date. The inventory level is then replenished to its appropriate stocking level with new purchases. This did not happen with some items being issued for routine use and stcks not replenished.
More to come on this one and please stop the comparisons with the UK as a shining light of performance during the pandemic. It ain't and it never was.
Watch Channel 4 live | Stream Channel 4 Live
Watch live streaming of our TV channels - Channel 4, E4, More4, Film4 and 4seven.www.channel4.com
Do you have any information of the state of Ireland's PPE preparations - how much they had in store; what its sell-by date was; why it was dependant on urgent supplies from China in mid-March ?
Take your time.It's a complicated subject and you'll need a while to research the extensive coverage in the Irish media.
Shall we say this time tomorrow ?
I've posted extensively about our own level of preparedness and our disastrous PPE purchases. My purpose posting here is to argue for a better yardstick than Boris Tony, sorry Matt, and the NHS to gauge our level of planning and performance. By comparing ourselves with UK we are setting the bar very very low, my point since joining this thread. What's your stake in the game?
Why would PPE have a sell-by date? Latex gloves, lexan face shields, masks, disposable gowns etc; they'll all last decades.
Why can't we just have a discussion based on what is being said by the HSE and reported in the national media?
I suspect that a large part of the PPE not fitting had something to do with the girth of some nurses and doctors.
You would think so and I certainly did but apparently not.
They all come with an expiry date.
It's one of the reasons governments don't spend fortunes continually re-stocking huge supplies of PPE for a once in a century global pandemic.
It comes with expiry dates because of glues etc used in them and the integrity of the packaging as well as the FDA and EMA just liking expiry dates. Gloves and masks will last for decades, as will the rest of it if stored in any sort of stable environment out of direct sunlight.
So if that's the case why was Ireland scrabbling around just like everyone else including the UK for gloves,masks and gowns ?
Which is the point I was making to the poster doing an online jig at news of a report that the UK was unprepared.
So was everyone else.
Yes, everyone was unprepared and unlike most countries we have no military (in any meaningful way) so we can't deploy field hospitals etc.
We have no army worth talking about so can't deploy field hospitals or dip into their stocks of medical equipment and we have no industry which can make much of the PPE. We also have a HSE which is utterly incompetent and can't buy the PPE we do have, let alone the other medical equipment that it has been offered (and said it needs).
That would be great news but unfortunately I don"t think so.
Sadly missed.
Yep, different poster altogether.
They do and the UK certainly did, £500 million according to inventory lists seen by Channel 4.
I see what you did there "large part", very good. And yes, we have some right porkers, looking like massive Blue Meanies on some news reports.