Why do people expect to be let off Negative Equity? You made a promise, stick to it!
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canicemcavoy
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Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Naive talk. Next you'll be saying that disgraced bankers should pay back their loans. Or politicians should only be able to obtain property loans available to the rest of us. Where do you think you live - Scandinavia?
Naive talk. Next you'll be saying that disgraced bankers should pay back their loans. Or politicians should only be able to obtain property loans available to the rest of us. Where do you think you live - Scandinavia?
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Clearly I'm some sort of a capitalist nut who wants to grind Orphans up for sausage meat. but I do think that if you took someone's money and said you would pay it back, well, then, you should really pay it back.
Clearly I'm some sort of a capitalist nut who wants to grind Orphans up for sausage meat. but I do think that if you took someone's money and said you would pay it back, well, then, you should really pay it back.
R
Robin Banks
Guest
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
But if you only bought it because of the implicit guarantee* that property prices could only go up, but then that guarantee was somehow revoked by nassty Bear Stearns & Lehman Brothers - shurely you are entitled not only to stop paying for your magic money making machine/3 bed semi/shoebox apartment - but also to a full refund?
*not written down anywhere
there is some sort of weird personal accountability thing that certain people are now trying to invoke during this crisis which is making the whole thing worse. it's bad for confidence.
But if you only bought it because of the implicit guarantee* that property prices could only go up, but then that guarantee was somehow revoked by nassty Bear Stearns & Lehman Brothers - shurely you are entitled not only to stop paying for your magic money making machine/3 bed semi/shoebox apartment - but also to a full refund?
*not written down anywhere
there is some sort of weird personal accountability thing that certain people are now trying to invoke during this crisis which is making the whole thing worse. it's bad for confidence.
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Yep concur 100%,you were happy to borrow the money now pay it back ....simples!
Yep concur 100%,you were happy to borrow the money now pay it back ....simples!
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Agree totally and if you and your mates with your super macho behaviour in the property world , the banking world, and the stock exchange have caused the world's economies to collapse, at least have some cojones now and take the hit. Those of us who all our life condemned this excess of capitalism have no problem admitting that we would never , ever have had the courage to take the risks you did. In fact , we were never that interested in money to that extent. You obviously were and took those risks, now we are paying the price for your reckless behaviour and frankly we couldn't care less if you and your ilk all over the world ended up with nothing.As my grandmother used to say , some people want to put their arms around the world,,,,,,,,,greed, unadulterated greed and don't give us baloney about achievements, how many of you would do what you did without the prospect of huge, not fair profit!!!
Agree totally and if you and your mates with your super macho behaviour in the property world , the banking world, and the stock exchange have caused the world's economies to collapse, at least have some cojones now and take the hit. Those of us who all our life condemned this excess of capitalism have no problem admitting that we would never , ever have had the courage to take the risks you did. In fact , we were never that interested in money to that extent. You obviously were and took those risks, now we are paying the price for your reckless behaviour and frankly we couldn't care less if you and your ilk all over the world ended up with nothing.As my grandmother used to say , some people want to put their arms around the world,,,,,,,,,greed, unadulterated greed and don't give us baloney about achievements, how many of you would do what you did without the prospect of huge, not fair profit!!!
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canicemcavoy
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Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
I hope Brendan will include this in his submission.
I hope Brendan will include this in his submission.
Z
z107
Guest
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Ultimately, someone is going to have to pay for this debt. It can either be:
1. Taxpayers
2. The person who took out the loan
3. Other customers of the credit supplier
The debt won't simply disappear.
We are already being forced to hand money over to insolvent banks by the government.
Ultimately, someone is going to have to pay for this debt. It can either be:
1. Taxpayers
2. The person who took out the loan
3. Other customers of the credit supplier
The debt won't simply disappear.
We are already being forced to hand money over to insolvent banks by the government.
G
glane31
Guest
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
+1
+1
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
The government promised to pay me €60k a year if they honour their word I will honour mine!!
I would be happy to continue paying the same % of my income in mortgage repayments as I was doing before the people who lent to me ballsd up the financial system.
Tongue in cheek really but normal rules dont really apply in the situation we find ourselves.
The government promised to pay me €60k a year if they honour their word I will honour mine!!
I would be happy to continue paying the same % of my income in mortgage repayments as I was doing before the people who lent to me ballsd up the financial system.
Tongue in cheek really but normal rules dont really apply in the situation we find ourselves.
M
MadPad
Guest
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Debt settlement is such a misleading term for what is proposed.
Debt writeoffs or writedowns is whats proposed. Even that doesn't describe it properly; unless you have been someone who has had to take the hit and write off bad debts; a debt writeoff may feel like the easy way out... it is unless you're the guy writing off the debt.
The debts are not written off, they dont just disappear, with the debtor feeling good and the creditor no worse off -- the creditor probably owes others money and they have to pay --- someone always has to pay up.
This proposal is classic "something for nothing" rubbish. Im sure some idiot will soon be describing it as a 'win-win' or some other phrase that was so noughties....
The mentality that was promoted on this site and in others during the boom has clearly not gone away... borrowing to invest, leveraging, etc. Everyone looking for a way to get a loan, buy something, sit back and wait and watch while others do the heavy lifting and make you rich.
The old fashioned boring advice of buy what you can afford to borrow and then clear the debt as soon as possible was ridiculed.
So now we have the same people who cheerlead the property bubble, looking for 'debt settlement'. An undo key for their investment decisions.. Ain't going to happen folks.. life doesnt come with an undo key.
Those who wanted to borrow, sit back and watch others make you money will now get to spend a lifetime making the banksters money. Its almost biblical.
Debt settlement is such a misleading term for what is proposed.
Debt writeoffs or writedowns is whats proposed. Even that doesn't describe it properly; unless you have been someone who has had to take the hit and write off bad debts; a debt writeoff may feel like the easy way out... it is unless you're the guy writing off the debt.
The debts are not written off, they dont just disappear, with the debtor feeling good and the creditor no worse off -- the creditor probably owes others money and they have to pay --- someone always has to pay up.
This proposal is classic "something for nothing" rubbish. Im sure some idiot will soon be describing it as a 'win-win' or some other phrase that was so noughties....
The mentality that was promoted on this site and in others during the boom has clearly not gone away... borrowing to invest, leveraging, etc. Everyone looking for a way to get a loan, buy something, sit back and wait and watch while others do the heavy lifting and make you rich.
The old fashioned boring advice of buy what you can afford to borrow and then clear the debt as soon as possible was ridiculed.
So now we have the same people who cheerlead the property bubble, looking for 'debt settlement'. An undo key for their investment decisions.. Ain't going to happen folks.. life doesnt come with an undo key.
Those who wanted to borrow, sit back and watch others make you money will now get to spend a lifetime making the banksters money. Its almost biblical.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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- 52,091
Re: You promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Folks
Make sure that you share your wisdom and opinions with the Law Reform Commission. It's fine to rant away in the pub and online, but the LRC is asking for your opinions. This is your opportunity to actually influence the shape of Irish law.
Most of their thinking on debt settlement is in relation to personal debt not related to housing and mortgages.
The LRC will produce a report which will include draft legislation.
You will be able to comment on the legislation as it goes through the Oireachtas, but you would be far more effective influencing the first draft.
They will accept submission up to the end of January.
Brendan
Folks
Make sure that you share your wisdom and opinions with the Law Reform Commission. It's fine to rant away in the pub and online, but the LRC is asking for your opinions. This is your opportunity to actually influence the shape of Irish law.
Most of their thinking on debt settlement is in relation to personal debt not related to housing and mortgages.
The LRC will produce a report which will include draft legislation.
You will be able to comment on the legislation as it goes through the Oireachtas, but you would be far more effective influencing the first draft.
They will accept submission up to the end of January.
Brendan
Z
z107
Guest
Re: You promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
The Law Reform Commission have already made their mind up on what they are going to do. Submitting our opinions is futile (Unless you're CEO of a bank). This is simply a PR exercise.
The Law Reform Commission have already made their mind up on what they are going to do. Submitting our opinions is futile (Unless you're CEO of a bank). This is simply a PR exercise.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,091
Re: You promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
Have you even the slightest basis for making such a comment?
Have you read their consultation paper or even part of it?
Did you attend their seminar on the topic?
One of the extraordinary things about the document is that it is undecided on many big issues. The biggest issue of all is mortgages and they have said very little on them.
Have you even the slightest basis for making such a comment?
Have you read their consultation paper or even part of it?
Did you attend their seminar on the topic?
One of the extraordinary things about the document is that it is undecided on many big issues. The biggest issue of all is mortgages and they have said very little on them.
Re: Why promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
The rules do apply! Your promise to pay is not predicated on your continued employment at the same wage. You agree to take on the risk of there being any differential between the two and perhaps should take out insurance to cover yourself in this case. Its like saying "I'll pay my doctors bill so long as the bakers still pays my wages". You are basically saying you have no personal responsibility for your debt, it is your employers responsibility.
It was and still is each of our own personal responsibility to only take out loans that we could manage even if we lost a job for a few months or had a wage cut etc. If you took a loan that becomes unplayable if you have a salary cut of 25% then you took out too big a loan.
The rules do apply! Your promise to pay is not predicated on your continued employment at the same wage. You agree to take on the risk of there being any differential between the two and perhaps should take out insurance to cover yourself in this case. Its like saying "I'll pay my doctors bill so long as the bakers still pays my wages". You are basically saying you have no personal responsibility for your debt, it is your employers responsibility.
It was and still is each of our own personal responsibility to only take out loans that we could manage even if we lost a job for a few months or had a wage cut etc. If you took a loan that becomes unplayable if you have a salary cut of 25% then you took out too big a loan.
Re: You promised to pay it back, why not stick to your word?
+1.
The LRC's consultation paper should be the model for all future consultation documents on proposed legislation in my opinion.
+1.
The LRC's consultation paper should be the model for all future consultation documents on proposed legislation in my opinion.
Re: Why do people expect to be let off Negative Equity? You made a promise, stick to
But isn't this why mortgage holders are so annoyed? Developers took out huge sums too, took too high a risk. Banks took too high a risk by lending so much to developers.
But it seems like the small fish who also took out too high loans are going to have to continue repaying their mortgages on properties with negative equity. On top of that every cent of taxpayers money is going into NAMA to bail out banks and developers. We can see the effects of NAMA already...no money for natural disasters, hospitals etc. Everywhere I look I see cut-backs, reductions in services and the semi-state sectors are increasing prices. Am I wrong?
You can hardly blame a normal human reaction asking why should we pay, when others, who borrowed more, are not paying.
But isn't this why mortgage holders are so annoyed? Developers took out huge sums too, took too high a risk. Banks took too high a risk by lending so much to developers.
But it seems like the small fish who also took out too high loans are going to have to continue repaying their mortgages on properties with negative equity. On top of that every cent of taxpayers money is going into NAMA to bail out banks and developers. We can see the effects of NAMA already...no money for natural disasters, hospitals etc. Everywhere I look I see cut-backs, reductions in services and the semi-state sectors are increasing prices. Am I wrong?
You can hardly blame a normal human reaction asking why should we pay, when others, who borrowed more, are not paying.
Re: Why do people expect to be let off Negative Equity? You made a promise, stick to
This is definitely the intention, but I think the public and media need to keep an eagle eye on this to ensure that they don't wriggle out of it.
This is definitely the intention, but I think the public and media need to keep an eagle eye on this to ensure that they don't wriggle out of it.
canicemcavoy
Registered User
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Re: Why do people expect to be let off Negative Equity? You made a promise, stick to
Including Anglo, you mean? Tell me how Anglo keeps our economy functioning - unless you count giving loans like jellybeans to developers and politicans.
NAMA's purpose is not to get banks lending - indeed, the ex-chairman of AIB has already said it will not have this effect. It's there to, quote, "put a floor on the property market".
Including Anglo, you mean? Tell me how Anglo keeps our economy functioning - unless you count giving loans like jellybeans to developers and politicans.
NAMA's purpose is not to get banks lending - indeed, the ex-chairman of AIB has already said it will not have this effect. It's there to, quote, "put a floor on the property market".