Paul O Mahoney
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Facts are very rarely classified as Semantics.
"Why are we so angry at the Government and Nphet"
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
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Happy wife, happy life...The missus is in that brigade now so I must be a little reticent round these here parts
If we agree deaths aren't semantics, then we did a lot better than those you are putting ahead of us. When you consider our health service generally was grossly inefficient with poorer outcomes for more investment than many of those countries prior to the pandemic, it might have been expected we would fare much worse.
Take a cursory look at the weekly data in the link I provided .......waiting for you to come back and say we're not at the bottom, we're 3rd or 4th from the bottom . Ok.
The main table in the link you provided details numbers of deaths. I presume they list that first as they consider it the most important statistic. On that measure, we are no where near the bottom as you suggest.
Hold on, are you judging performance over the course of the 15 or so months of the pandemic just on the current 14 day running average numbers? That makes no sense whatsoever. That's the same as declaring Crystal Palace premiership champions after a run of two good results.
Paul O Mahoney
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Again on what metric? The table is Alphabetical as are all the others. So again by what metric are you using . Is it deaths , cases, 14 day incidence?
Paul O Mahoney
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And we only updated the missing data in the past week and I doubt they are accurate as one figure for us is 5000 another 5006.
And at less than 2% deaths per cases we aren't at the bottom.
Edit: the last weekly report issued was on the 12th of May and that showed 4929 deaths with about 300 of that figure awaiting " confirmation " no other data was issued from the Hspc since.
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Paul O Mahoney
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I agree but some have a narrative that must be followed and then issue data without any interpretation.
Your second question will take an inquiry to answer, but like other countries we too sent vulnerable elderly people to care homes untested and we lost thousands of them.
Paul O Mahoney
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Error 1967
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Paul O Mahoney
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My personal " hope" is that we learn from this and begin to recognise that the system we have now is broken, and that's not just from a governmental side but from a societal side too.It doesn't seem extraordinary to me. I'm very angry with them. For so many reasons, as Purple said because they're only looking at the short term impact of all this and only how it relates to covid, because I work in mental health and see what the impact of this is, because when compared to the approach taken by governments across the world so many aspects of governance here are inexplicable...because for some the last 16 months has mainly been a lovely, cosy family time albeit with some inconveniences while for others, particularly those who are living alone, working from home and isolated it has been pure hell. Because of the lack of empathy and understanding of all this. Honestly I find it hard to understand why more people aren't angry. Going to leave it there though as pretty soon I'll be in a debate about all of the above and then be even angrier....
We simply can't continue the way we have and let's be honest no political party is going to do anything to help those you care for.
On the short-termism , we need to get people vaccinated, but also it's ironic that they can get funds immediately to cover this yet things like mental health or other severe conditions that hurt people are ignored.
Try not to be angry dude it's the most destructive emotion , and that's from someone who used it a lot.
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I don’t feel anger towards NEPHT or the government. They have dealt with a horrendous situation the best they were able within the confines of their situations. A health system that is barely scraping along and a country where he who shouts loudest (lobby groups) often get short term responses that may be against the best interests of the country as a whole long term.
There has been plenty during the pandemic that angers or frustrated me so much and for each citizen that list may be different or similar, different things push different peoples buttons. There has also been parts
The slow response at the beginning by the government, a real negative. The 12th March was way too late for the first wave, I personally was sick with worry from the 7th I would say.
Mental health was seriously under resourced before the pandemic, it still is.
The poetry. I loved it. I wish there was more.
The lack of intensive care beds, which still has not been fixed put us on the back foot from the start. This made me worry, but did not anger me.
The Nepht press conferences were a real positive for me, they sound professional, caring, and are not afraid of delivering bad messages.
The media I feel have not covered themselves in glory. As well as repotting the news & the facts, I think they have done a poor job of the photographs they pick. Groups out enjoying the waves when most of us could not go more than 2k. Granny Mary celebrating her 100th with numerous callers and well wishers all lines up when at the time she should been cocooning. Hundreds lining the street for a funeral when only 10 were allowed. The media may have felt these stories and images were uplifting but for us joe plods sitting at home like we were told they weren’t.
I was not happy about how judgemental I became, like the last paragraph, or friends, family or neighbours behaving in ways I felt went against the spirit of the current restrictions. Hearing of a friend whose children travelled home from the UK for Christmas when my mother decided not to come for Christmas dinner, yes it made me bitter & judgemental.
I feel we handled the nursing homes just as badly as other countries but could we have done better, yes. Having care assistances working across several homes should have been stopped. Family visits should have been allowed more, I could not understand why a son or daughter could not visit but a care assistant who was living with other care assistants all who worked in multiple care homes could come and go as normal. I know which one would have been more careful of the older person.
I think Brazilian workers in meat plants were another area the government could have stepped in. If they had permanent contracts and were paid directly by the factories this would have reduced the risk. The German government made this change early on in the pandemic.
We were lucky, none of our household lost jobs, we probably saved money, we had a garden to sit in, we had room in our house to spread out, none of us got the virus and 3/4 of us are currently vaccinated.
Portugal granted all asylum seekers citizenship in the first few weeks of the pandemic, we should have done the same, this may have reduced the risks there instantly.
My list of what gets to me positively or negatively is unique, each of us experiences the pandemic differently, we are all angry about some aspect, other parts reduce us to tears. I suppose what all of us want and need is that the future world will act to make permanent positive changes based on the pandemic and its impact on society.
There has been plenty during the pandemic that angers or frustrated me so much and for each citizen that list may be different or similar, different things push different peoples buttons. There has also been parts
The slow response at the beginning by the government, a real negative. The 12th March was way too late for the first wave, I personally was sick with worry from the 7th I would say.
Mental health was seriously under resourced before the pandemic, it still is.
The poetry. I loved it. I wish there was more.
The lack of intensive care beds, which still has not been fixed put us on the back foot from the start. This made me worry, but did not anger me.
The Nepht press conferences were a real positive for me, they sound professional, caring, and are not afraid of delivering bad messages.
The media I feel have not covered themselves in glory. As well as repotting the news & the facts, I think they have done a poor job of the photographs they pick. Groups out enjoying the waves when most of us could not go more than 2k. Granny Mary celebrating her 100th with numerous callers and well wishers all lines up when at the time she should been cocooning. Hundreds lining the street for a funeral when only 10 were allowed. The media may have felt these stories and images were uplifting but for us joe plods sitting at home like we were told they weren’t.
I was not happy about how judgemental I became, like the last paragraph, or friends, family or neighbours behaving in ways I felt went against the spirit of the current restrictions. Hearing of a friend whose children travelled home from the UK for Christmas when my mother decided not to come for Christmas dinner, yes it made me bitter & judgemental.
I feel we handled the nursing homes just as badly as other countries but could we have done better, yes. Having care assistances working across several homes should have been stopped. Family visits should have been allowed more, I could not understand why a son or daughter could not visit but a care assistant who was living with other care assistants all who worked in multiple care homes could come and go as normal. I know which one would have been more careful of the older person.
I think Brazilian workers in meat plants were another area the government could have stepped in. If they had permanent contracts and were paid directly by the factories this would have reduced the risk. The German government made this change early on in the pandemic.
We were lucky, none of our household lost jobs, we probably saved money, we had a garden to sit in, we had room in our house to spread out, none of us got the virus and 3/4 of us are currently vaccinated.
Portugal granted all asylum seekers citizenship in the first few weeks of the pandemic, we should have done the same, this may have reduced the risks there instantly.
My list of what gets to me positively or negatively is unique, each of us experiences the pandemic differently, we are all angry about some aspect, other parts reduce us to tears. I suppose what all of us want and need is that the future world will act to make permanent positive changes based on the pandemic and its impact on society.
Any decisions made by Holohan, NPHET, M Martin etc should be forensically scrutinized given that we are outliers re Antigen testing, Indoor hospitality, Aviation and Attendance at outdoor sporting events, never mind the fact that there are still 220,000 on PUP.
The 6,000 at the Aviva stadium on Saturday were required to wear masks. Those same people could then head to the nearest pub after the match and sit outdoors 6 to a table without masks. Is the science behind that based on a Nolan model ? Any sign of a peer review of the model that ignores natural immunity, seasonal effects and comorbitities and that has kept indoor hospitality closed except when you stay in a hotel and can eat and drink all day long.?
The 6,000 at the Aviva stadium on Saturday were required to wear masks. Those same people could then head to the nearest pub after the match and sit outdoors 6 to a table without masks. Is the science behind that based on a Nolan model ? Any sign of a peer review of the model that ignores natural immunity, seasonal effects and comorbitities and that has kept indoor hospitality closed except when you stay in a hotel and can eat and drink all day long.?