Why are gangsters being informed their lives are at risk?

Firefly said:
Hi Latrade,
Usually I take a fairly dim view of drug addicts, but I think you are going a bit over-board here.

Whilst I agree, technically, that they are committing crime by breaking into your house, I think it must be taken into account the state of their mind at the time. I've never taken drugs personally.....
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'technically'!!!! There's no 'technically' about it, it'v very black and white.
I was going to post an example of ' a state of mind' scenario but perhaps a bit too graphic for here.
A crime is a crime is a crime....state of mind is just an excuse used by slieveen legal bods and liberal do-gooders, in order to keep criminals on the street because it makes them feel good about themselves
 
Delboy said:
'technically'!!!! There's no 'technically' about it, it'v very black and white.
I was going to post an example of ' a state of mind' scenario but perhaps a bit too graphic for here.
A crime is a crime is a crime....state of mind is just an excuse used by slieveen legal bods and liberal do-gooders, in order to keep criminals on the street because it makes them feel good about themselves
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Well said Sir.


Deiseblue said:
Your answer was very much to my liking
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Glad I could help Deiseblue.;)
 
Delboy said:
'technically'!!!! There's no 'technically' about it, it'v very black and white.
I was going to post an example of ' a state of mind' scenario but perhaps a bit too graphic for here.
A crime is a crime is a crime....state of mind is just an excuse used by slieveen legal bods and liberal do-gooders, in order to keep criminals on the street because it makes them feel good about themselves
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Well technically it isn't black and white as criminal law doesn't always have an absolute either/or statement. So in some cases state of mind is factored in, whether it be mental health or otherwise.

Other than that you're absolutely correct, as a liberal do-gooder myself it is my aim to keep dangerous criminals on the streets irrespective of costs to society. That's exactly why I chose liberalism. I may well hide behind a thin facade of thinking that criminalising drug use and addiction serves no purpose other than to lead to "technically" criminal activities and you've seen through the standard liberal defence that perhaps there are other deeper societal and in many cases mental health issues that drive people to drug addiction.

It's all a lie and you have expertly seen through my lies. Instead all I really want is that demonstrable (again, it's not bankers I hate the most or politicians, it's that stupid liberal bias reality sometimes has where it clearly shows things like the following statement if only people would use a bit of that old Google) very small proportion of drug users who chose that life and are dangerous to society to be free on the streets for my own sick amusement.

Sure, there is a massive and long standing issue with understanding, treatment and help for people with mental illnesses where effectively they are left to fend for themselves, unemployable and vulnerable. But that's just the do-gooder in me and like the new iPhone, it doesn't take much to scratch off that do-gooder routine to get to the real truth (by which I mean an extreme inhumane view that has no basis in any reality or study ever performed).
 
Delboy said:
'technically'!!!! There's no 'technically' about it, it'v very black and white.
I was going to post an example of ' a state of mind' scenario but perhaps a bit too graphic for here.
A crime is a crime is a crime....state of mind is just an excuse used by slieveen legal bods and liberal do-gooders, in order to keep criminals on the street because it makes them feel good about themselves
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I'm well aware it's a crime to break into someone's house and I've said as much. What I'm saying, if you cared to read the sentences that directly followed the piece you highlighted above, is that I don't think it's accurate to call druggies criminals (as opposed to committing crimes) due to the state of their mind and that fact that criminals, IMO, are the ones engaged in organised crime such as the importation of the drugs in the first place. I probably am splitting hairs here. Just to add, if one of these druggies came into my house during the night, I wouldn't be in a position, nor would I care, to perform a psychiatric assesment of the state of their mind..the'd get the hurley.
 
Latrade said:
Well technically it isn't black and white as criminal law doesn't always have an absolute either/or statement. So in some cases state of mind is factored in, whether it be mental health or otherwise.

Other than that you're absolutely correct, as a liberal do-gooder myself it is my aim to keep dangerous criminals on the streets irrespective of costs to society. That's exactly why I chose liberalism. I may well hide behind a thin facade of thinking that criminalising drug use and addiction serves no purpose other than to lead to "technically" criminal activities and you've seen through the standard liberal defence that perhaps there are other deeper societal and in many cases mental health issues that drive people to drug addiction.

It's all a lie and you have expertly seen through my lies. Instead all I really want is that demonstrable (again, it's not bankers I hate the most or politicians, it's that stupid liberal bias reality sometimes has where it clearly shows things like the following statement if only people would use a bit of that old Google) very small proportion of drug users who chose that life and are dangerous to society to be free on the streets for my own sick amusement.

Sure, there is a massive and long standing issue with understanding, treatment and help for people with mental illnesses where effectively they are left to fend for themselves, unemployable and vulnerable. But that's just the do-gooder in me and like the new iPhone, it doesn't take much to scratch off that do-gooder routine to get to the real truth (by which I mean an extreme inhumane view that has no basis in any reality or study ever performed).
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had to read that a few times to try and follow it!!!

Perhaps if the drug addicts, perpetual thieves, corrupt politicians/bankers etc served real jail time instead of the revolving door system we have in this country, we'd not have so many drug addicts walking the street getting their fix by any means possible.
I'm sick and tired of reading about criminals with 40,50 convictions been given another chance by some judge who lives in a nice area with high walls or their tax payer funded legal team pleading that they've had some trauma in their lives which has led to them getting where they are.
I see after the recent drugs deaths in Cork a couple of weeks ago that the Gardai were immediately able to go out and carry out a few raids in which a series of arrests were made and a quantity of drugs were seized. Why are'nt they doing that every day- they know who to target. But the judges will probably give out light sentences and we're back to square one...more robberies, more drug fixes
 
Delboy said:
I'm sick and tired of reading about criminals with 40,50 convictions been given another chance by some judge who lives in a nice area with high walls or their tax payer funded legal team pleading that they've had some trauma in their lives which has led to them getting where they are.
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I'm sick of reading them too, though funnily enough none actually spring to mind and none show up in a scan of newspaper articles from the last few years. But yeah, I share your outrage of this scandal that seemingly doesn't occur all that often at all.


Delboy said:
I see after the recent drugs deaths in Cork a couple of weeks ago that the Gardai were immediately able to go out and carry out a few raids in which a series of arrests were made and a quantity of drugs were seized. Why are'nt they doing that every day- they know who to target. But the judges will probably give out light sentences and we're back to square one...more robberies, more drug fixes
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I remember that and yeah it was sad, but I also remember we've had press release practically every month demonstrating the Gardai are seizing major quantities of drugs. A few examples Kildare in October, Limerick and Kilkenny in September and Tipperary in August. So erm, well, they kind of are tackling the biggest issue which is the importers and dealers. But your point still stands...I think.
 
Delboy said:
Perhaps if the drug addicts, perpetual thieves, corrupt politicians/bankers etc served real jail time instead of the revolving door system we have in this country, we'd not have so many drug addicts walking the street getting their fix by any means possible.
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Show me one country that has managed to keep drugs out of jails, let alone out of the hands of a free society. Since the dawn of modern society, drugs have been common lace; they were in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome. To think that you can eradicate drugs from society is in my opinion utopian.
For the average druggie even the Bangkok Hilton is a better place than the streets, so they will always strive for some "respite" in jail. It is not a coincidence that alcoholics are not committing burglary in large numbers. The reason that drug addicts are committing crimes in order to get their fix is because their addiction involves an illegal substance.

Delboy said:
I'm sick and tired of reading about criminals with 40,50 convictions been given another chance by some judge who lives in a nice area with high walls or their tax payer funded legal team pleading that they've had some trauma in their lives which has led to them getting where they are.
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But these multi conviction criminals we hear about are not your average druggie or junkie, they are hardened carrier criminals.

Delboy said:
I see after the recent drugs deaths in Cork a couple of weeks ago that the Gardai were immediately able to go out and carry out a few raids in which a series of arrests were made and a quantity of drugs were seized. Why are'nt they doing that every day- they know who to target. But the judges will probably give out light sentences and we're back to square one...more robberies, more drug fixes
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You obviously have some evidence to suggest that gards are not doing drug busts when they know exactly where the drugs are? You don't think that maybe the investigation into the deaths uncovered some leads?
A neighbor of my in-laws is a detective in the drug squad and he says that more than 90% of drug busts never make it into the media. Small quantities of drugs are constantly being recovered.
The only reason why criminals have such power and commit such violent acts is because the drugs are illegal. When the US went into prohibition it fueled the largest increase in organized crime in US history. When you make something illegal you are handing a silver platter to organized crime.
 
Latrade said:
I'm sick of reading them too, though funnily enough none actually spring to mind and none show up in a scan of newspaper articles from the last few years. But yeah, I share your outrage of this scandal that seemingly doesn't occur all that often at all.




I remember that and yeah it was sad, but I also remember we've had press release practically every month demonstrating the Gardai are seizing major quantities of drugs. A few examples Kildare in October, Limerick and Kilkenny in September and Tipperary in August. So erm, well, they kind of are tackling the biggest issue which is the importers and dealers. But your point still stands...I think.
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there you go...hot off the press....89 previous convictions before this latest indiscretion
[broken link removed]
 
Chris said:
The only reason why criminals have such power and commit such violent acts is because the drugs are illegal. When the US went into prohibition it fueled the largest increase in organized crime in US history. When you make something illegal you are handing a silver platter to organized crime.
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Agree 100% have been saying this for years indeed a senior retired Detective said as much a few years back.

The State should take control of this,get the Drugs manufactured in controlled plants and distribute them for a few euro a week to those that require them.
Removing completely the power from drug lords and reducing crime very significantly,the saving to the State in terms of cost of policing and and massive drop in crime.

However this would have to be rolled out across all of Europe or else we would be over run by the Continents addicts.
 
Delboy said:
there you go...hot off the press....89 previous convictions before this latest indiscretion
[broken link removed]
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For which he was jailed.

But just to bring it back to the original debate on the drug addicts, the proposition was the Gardai shouldn't warn drug addicts that a huge batch of poisonous herion was in circulation. So in this man's example, the state sanctioned death of a handbag snatcher. Is that what we're saying?

I can understand people's discontent with durg addicts, I don't agree with that position obviously and I don't agree with the view that there are no mitigating factors that mean we can be sympathetic their lives. I can understand it, but still disagree as there is clear evidence that position is wrong. But I just don't understand the bloodlust for the state to allow deliberately through deliberate neglect anyone person's death.
 
Delboy said:
pity he was'nt jailed properly for any 1 of the previous 89 convictions and the poor woman in question here would'nt have had to have been dragged down the road
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He was jailed & unfortunately became addicted to heroin whilst imprisoned in Mountjoy in 2007 !
 
Chris said:
But these multi conviction criminals we hear about are not your average druggie or junkie, they are hardened carrier criminals.
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On the contrary, you will find that it is your average druggie or junkie who is in and out of Mountjoy every few months. These are the guys who are committing burglaries and amass numerous convictions but are released again and again.
 
Deiseblue said:
He was jailed & unfortunately became addicted to heroin whilst imprisoned in Mountjoy in 2007 !
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must have been some severe jail sentences he got for the previous 89 convictions.....and him out and about committing this crime a year ago at the age of 26 then
 
Liamos said:
On the contrary, you will find that it is your average druggie or junkie who is in and out of Mountjoy every few months. These are the guys who are committing burglaries and amass numerous convictions but are released again and again.
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Which tells us that locking them up doesn't work. Maybe if their quality of life outside prison was better then prison would serve as a deterent.
 
Purple said:
Which tells us that locking them up doesn't work. Maybe if their quality of life outside prison was better then prison would serve as a deterent.
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true and maybe if their prison sentences increased incrementally for every subsequent crime, and any possible early releases were tied into undertaking meaningful courses whilst in prison, we'd go a long way towards solving the problem of habitual criminals
 
Delboy said:
true and maybe if their prison sentences increased incrementally for every subsequent crime, and any possible early releases were tied into undertaking meaningful courses whilst in prison, we'd go a long way towards solving the problem of habitual criminals
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If this is about saving money then the cheapest solution is also the best solution; investment in education at an early age. By that I don't mean paying already overpaid teachers even more; I mean proper infrastructure, smaller classes and better training for teachers in order to bring them up the acceptable international standards. Prevention is better (and cheaper) than cure.
This won't happen of course because our socialist government is not that interested in empowering the poor, just punishing the rich and the teaching unions don’t care about education and so take the money that should go towards these things and give it to their members.

Firefly said:
Or maybe life is too good in prison? ;)
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I don’t think many people would consider conditions in Mountjoy as good.
 
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