J
John
Guest
Why are Al Quieda at war with us (western world). Most of the worlds conflicts seem to be over terratorial claims.
S
sluice44
Guest
Presumably they, like most religions, believe they know the truth and it's their responsibility to educate us ignorant people. Wish they could teach me some grammer!
Sluice
Sluice
O
Osamas sore toe
Guest
Re
Who says they are at war with "the West"? Don't believe the hype!
Who says they are at war with "the West"? Don't believe the hype!
J
John
Guest
re
Of coarse, they are at war with the west. Do you not think 911 and Spain etc were acts of war ?
Of coarse, they are at war with the west. Do you not think 911 and Spain etc were acts of war ?
B
banjaxed
Guest
Al Qaida are basically a reaction against Western interference in Arab affairs (and also in non-Arab Muslim states). First the French and British occupied most of the Arab world. When their "empires" ended the Arab states became nominally sovereign. In fact the US and to a lesser extent Britain and France have continued to influence affairs: propping up the myriad of dictatorships that are present in the Middle East, because of the strategic importance of oil.
Bin Ladin himself has pointed to the US military presence in Saudi and their support for the unelected Saudi monarchy as reasons for his campaign.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaida
gives a decent overview. Interesting to note that Al Qaida was spawned from the US-backed and US-funded mujihideen in Afghanistan. Yet again western interference comes back to bite the West in the ass. You reap what you sow.
Bin Ladin himself has pointed to the US military presence in Saudi and their support for the unelected Saudi monarchy as reasons for his campaign.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaida
gives a decent overview. Interesting to note that Al Qaida was spawned from the US-backed and US-funded mujihideen in Afghanistan. Yet again western interference comes back to bite the West in the ass. You reap what you sow.
C
cerberus
Guest
groundhog day
Unil the palestine situation is settled there will be no peace.
And that is no closer now that 30 years ago (look up hijcking of planes in the 70's)
Israel must be give safety and the P's an homeland anf if the money, energy, etc being spent on waging war on Iraq was spent on this might move it forward.
A peaceful middle east would look after democracy and saddam itself.
Unfortunately, the ME is stuck in the past and each generation fights the battles again and again.
0]
Unil the palestine situation is settled there will be no peace.
And that is no closer now that 30 years ago (look up hijcking of planes in the 70's)
Israel must be give safety and the P's an homeland anf if the money, energy, etc being spent on waging war on Iraq was spent on this might move it forward.
A peaceful middle east would look after democracy and saddam itself.
Unfortunately, the ME is stuck in the past and each generation fights the battles again and again.
0]
E
ElSid
Guest
This troll isn't working
Where is piggy?
Where is piggy?
C
cerberus
Guest
oh, its a troll?
i should not have bothered.
maybe piggy is tired or beaten
0]
i should not have bothered.
maybe piggy is tired or beaten
0]
Z
z
Guest
oh, its a troll?
maybe the chap is just sick of talking about serious subjects with ignorant losers, Islamophobes and ...!
maybe the chap is just sick of talking about serious subjects with ignorant losers, Islamophobes and ...!
Z
Z
Guest
anyway
how is anyone to join in a topic when some losers feel that they have to "beat" others to get their view across?
how is anyone to join in a topic when some losers feel that they have to "beat" others to get their view across?
J
John
Guest
Re
Yes, surely the point of this forum is debate and therefore no winners or losers. Also thanks for that site - very informative.
Yes, surely the point of this forum is debate and therefore no winners or losers. Also thanks for that site - very informative.
B
Breeze
Guest
Re: anyway
Saudi monarchy started wahabbi schools in the early sixties. They spread with the help of oil money. The wahabbi and extreme sunni muslims basically hate Jews and Christians and they have an addage. Convert to islam(our strain of it) or die.
It's that simple. it's their faith.
The US supported the dictatorships around the world during the cold war to contain communism. Now that is gone there is a paradigm shift to move away from supporting dictatorships. It is in the U.S's long term interest to support and grow western democracy around the world. They've being doing it on and off since WWI when they helped to destroy the monarchies of Europe which were unfortunately replaced by dictatorships which they then destroyed and decided to stay in Germany and Japan to make sure democracy took hold and keep the soviet union from marching across Europe to the Atlantic.
Now Arab Muslims States of which none were democratic until Iraq was invaded are the focus of U.S attention since 9/11. The U.S see defeating these extremists the same as defeating Hitler or the soviet union. They will do whatever for whatever lenght of time. The U.S will prevail. You will see democracy start to take hold in the arab world over the next 20-30 years.
Saudi monarchy started wahabbi schools in the early sixties. They spread with the help of oil money. The wahabbi and extreme sunni muslims basically hate Jews and Christians and they have an addage. Convert to islam(our strain of it) or die.
It's that simple. it's their faith.
The US supported the dictatorships around the world during the cold war to contain communism. Now that is gone there is a paradigm shift to move away from supporting dictatorships. It is in the U.S's long term interest to support and grow western democracy around the world. They've being doing it on and off since WWI when they helped to destroy the monarchies of Europe which were unfortunately replaced by dictatorships which they then destroyed and decided to stay in Germany and Japan to make sure democracy took hold and keep the soviet union from marching across Europe to the Atlantic.
Now Arab Muslims States of which none were democratic until Iraq was invaded are the focus of U.S attention since 9/11. The U.S see defeating these extremists the same as defeating Hitler or the soviet union. They will do whatever for whatever lenght of time. The U.S will prevail. You will see democracy start to take hold in the arab world over the next 20-30 years.
H
househunter1
Guest
Re: anyway
some good points breeze....good to hear some pro US sentiment for a change. Imagine if the US had'nt stepped in with the Marshall plan after WW2. The soviet union would have swept through europe like a knife through butter.
On the Al Queda note...well Islamo-facists (before Al-queda formed) have been waging holy wars (jihads) against the infidels ('regressing' muslim or non muslim communities) for hundereds of years now in the hope of setting up muslim theocracies (a state dominated by clerics or so called representatives of God). Jihad is counted as one of the five legitimate forms of war recognised by fundamental Islamic doctrine.
Should we be tolerant of such movements? or more importantly if we are what would the result be?
The main arguement I hear supporting the muslim cause is that Islamo-facism is a minority movement amongst the muslim community. This is true and important to be acknowledged, but nevertheless there exists a threat from Al-Qeuda and the like. It is the size and seriousness of the threat that needs to be debated.
some good points breeze....good to hear some pro US sentiment for a change. Imagine if the US had'nt stepped in with the Marshall plan after WW2. The soviet union would have swept through europe like a knife through butter.
On the Al Queda note...well Islamo-facists (before Al-queda formed) have been waging holy wars (jihads) against the infidels ('regressing' muslim or non muslim communities) for hundereds of years now in the hope of setting up muslim theocracies (a state dominated by clerics or so called representatives of God). Jihad is counted as one of the five legitimate forms of war recognised by fundamental Islamic doctrine.
Should we be tolerant of such movements? or more importantly if we are what would the result be?
The main arguement I hear supporting the muslim cause is that Islamo-facism is a minority movement amongst the muslim community. This is true and important to be acknowledged, but nevertheless there exists a threat from Al-Qeuda and the like. It is the size and seriousness of the threat that needs to be debated.
T
Tizona
Guest
Islamic terror
Al Qaeda, and Islamic terrorism in general, is just a combination of the innate wickedness of Islam and the sense of inferiority and impotence felt by arab cultures in the face of a powerful and rich western world.
Al Qaeda, and Islamic terrorism in general, is just a combination of the innate wickedness of Islam and the sense of inferiority and impotence felt by arab cultures in the face of a powerful and rich western world.
T
Tall Chapy
Guest
Re: Islamic terror
banjaxed.
Is the closest in my opinion.
The greatest change has been Al Queda size.
- When they attacked World Trade Center 1993 they were a FEW mad Islamic terrorist
- When they attacked the the embassies in Africa, the attack was financed by a GROUP called Al Queda
- When the US invaded Afganistan there was thousands all of a sudden...
Yes, there were many Al Queda training camps with possibly a few hundered Islamic terrorists being trained.But if the clock is rewound back to they days,weeks after the invasion, it is reported that there are thousands of Al Queda terrorists there.
Yet months prior to the invasion everyone is reporting that Al Queda is just a group that supplies logistical support to various anti-US Islamic terrorist groups around the world.
Basically Al Queda is a small group of people that integrates the operations of various islamic mercenary forces (Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Harakat ul-Ansar,..etc..)and gives any related logistical services that they require. To put it another way Al Quada sub-contracts out the 'jobs' that they want done or aids the sub contractor (if required), for any jobs the sub contract wishes to carry out.
The invasion of Afganhistan has removed the terrorist training camps, but the invasion of Iraq has created thousand of extra volunteers. Al Queda has now been pushed to an underground terrorist organisation.Once a terrorist organisation is pushed underground it starts to think more of a long term strategy.So plans will be a foot to create sleepers and to put a system in place where if the head is chopped off (Bin laden and/or the Egyptian Doctor are killed) the jihad will continue. Technology and experience is squeezing Al Queda vert tight, the trouble with this is that, Al Queda will have to think smarter and quicker so as to prevent capture.
But then again this type of game is two faced, god knows what could be going on. Osama could be captured already jus waiting to be rolled out for the Republican Convention....
In the meantime..have read of this and try and figure out where the truth really LIES...
[broken link removed]
banjaxed.
Is the closest in my opinion.
The greatest change has been Al Queda size.
- When they attacked World Trade Center 1993 they were a FEW mad Islamic terrorist
- When they attacked the the embassies in Africa, the attack was financed by a GROUP called Al Queda
- When the US invaded Afganistan there was thousands all of a sudden...
Yes, there were many Al Queda training camps with possibly a few hundered Islamic terrorists being trained.But if the clock is rewound back to they days,weeks after the invasion, it is reported that there are thousands of Al Queda terrorists there.
Yet months prior to the invasion everyone is reporting that Al Queda is just a group that supplies logistical support to various anti-US Islamic terrorist groups around the world.
Basically Al Queda is a small group of people that integrates the operations of various islamic mercenary forces (Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Harakat ul-Ansar,..etc..)and gives any related logistical services that they require. To put it another way Al Quada sub-contracts out the 'jobs' that they want done or aids the sub contractor (if required), for any jobs the sub contract wishes to carry out.
The invasion of Afganhistan has removed the terrorist training camps, but the invasion of Iraq has created thousand of extra volunteers. Al Queda has now been pushed to an underground terrorist organisation.Once a terrorist organisation is pushed underground it starts to think more of a long term strategy.So plans will be a foot to create sleepers and to put a system in place where if the head is chopped off (Bin laden and/or the Egyptian Doctor are killed) the jihad will continue. Technology and experience is squeezing Al Queda vert tight, the trouble with this is that, Al Queda will have to think smarter and quicker so as to prevent capture.
But then again this type of game is two faced, god knows what could be going on. Osama could be captured already jus waiting to be rolled out for the Republican Convention....
In the meantime..have read of this and try and figure out where the truth really LIES...
[broken link removed]
W
waitAminute
Guest
iraq
Did you see all the wasted lives in Najaf?
They can't be a rational people.
We'll guard the shrine with our lives, from who? - the US didn't want it.
If that had been the russkies, the germans, the french, the japs (in thier heyday) that shrine and old moqtada would be a pile of dust
def not rational people
Did you see all the wasted lives in Najaf?
They can't be a rational people.
We'll guard the shrine with our lives, from who? - the US didn't want it.
If that had been the russkies, the germans, the french, the japs (in thier heyday) that shrine and old moqtada would be a pile of dust
def not rational people
U
uk1
Guest
or the english
A gunboat up the river by the brits or
The Chinese in Tibet
A gunboat up the river by the brits or
The Chinese in Tibet
S
spottheracist
Guest
re
Rational people don't make ignorant racist comments.
Rational people don't make ignorant racist comments.
W
waitAminute
Guest
spottheracist
the racist tag again.
The french foriegn minister is today on his way to negotiate with Islamic terrorists holding 2 journalists.
Their demand - that France does not bring in the law banning muslim headscarfs in french schools.
Other religon's gear is also banned.
Schools should be non denominational/religous
These people want to hold the world to ransom and these attacks are attacks on all western and non muslim society.
Its not about racism - its far more dangerous than that.
the racist tag again.
The french foriegn minister is today on his way to negotiate with Islamic terrorists holding 2 journalists.
Their demand - that France does not bring in the law banning muslim headscarfs in french schools.
Other religon's gear is also banned.
Schools should be non denominational/religous
These people want to hold the world to ransom and these attacks are attacks on all western and non muslim society.
Its not about racism - its far more dangerous than that.
W
waitAsecond
Guest
spottheracist
Those terrorists do not in anyway represent the French Muslims who are themselves protesting peacefully about the headgear. The terrorists are a tiny minority who do not represent their faith. But when you don't make that clarification and judging by many of your previous remarks about Muslims on this board you merely come across as a spokesman for the BNP. They try to persuade people they're rational too.
Those terrorists do not in anyway represent the French Muslims who are themselves protesting peacefully about the headgear. The terrorists are a tiny minority who do not represent their faith. But when you don't make that clarification and judging by many of your previous remarks about Muslims on this board you merely come across as a spokesman for the BNP. They try to persuade people they're rational too.