Who would be a landlord?

Greenbook

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Article here from today's Irish Independent

Litany of horrors here for the landlord:

1. Tenant is in considerable arrears with his rent
2. Falsly accused the landlord of making seriously homophobic comments about the tenant
3. Two NoTs invalid due to mistakes (the rent is owed, just something missed in the NoT)
4. Tenant took a case against the landlord for not repairing a washingmachine, but wouldn't allow the landlord in to the premises to look at the machine and organise the repair
5. This has gone to two RTB Tribunals and is now on its way to the High Court
6. Tenant is still in situ not paying rent

In fairness the Tribunal does not appear to have been biased against the landlord, it is just the system. It is designed so that the tenant has every opportunity to make complaints and drag the whole thing out as long as possible.

Honestly, who would be a landlord?
 
A lot of landlords are not very bright - and the Housing Minister is gambling on that being the vast majority.
 
No matter how well you vet, your tenant is still some random person that you met once for 20 minutes

You are taking a leap of faith that the person won't embroil you in a mess like this
 
some random person that you met once for 20 minutes
That must change surely.
We rented years ago in NL and the system then was like applying for a mortgage here, we had to provide the agency with all kinds of documentation, work certs, plus a guarantor as we had no rental history in the country. We also had to pay three months upfront. Could be different now.
 
Who needs the headache..

Some ppl in other threads have said they are continuing on being a landlord, cant remember their names, They must have balls of steel..
I am a landlord granted small time bought at the bottom of the market in 2011,
It all depends on where you are located in relation to your rented property and what it cost when you started and how it has increased in value
if you live locally and take the time to find a new tenant and lay down the ground rules regarding inspection and collecting rent you can avoid a lot of they above,
always in the back of my mind is what happened to landlords in the late 1800s and early 1900s who were clapping their hands at the returns they were getting on the money they got having sold to the Government and invested in the stock market all was ok untill 1926 when the lost everything in the stock market crash,
I don't think I would go out and buy a house and become a landlord today like the stock market house prices can go up or down
If I was young today and working had some spare cash I would forward fund my pension ,I would not become a landlord,
A lot of landlords are not very bright - and the Housing Minister is gambling on that being the vast majority.
You are 100% correct from reading what is posted on the Internet and talking to ones I know It is not just the housing Minister that is Gambling it is the 2 main parties in government every time the squeeze the landlord a little bit more the know SF will come out and want them to go a little further all most landlords hear is what SF said not what FF and FG just did to them, a sure vote getter for FF and FG they get the tenants vote and the landlord vote every time,
 
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A lot of landlords are not very bright - and the Housing Minister is gambling on that being the vast majority.
Yes the current and previous ministers rely on landlords staying quiet. Every other group with a shared grievance or market interest seem to protest, lobby TDs, speak out in MSM, but the providers of rental accommodation for 250k + tenancies are terrified to voice their objections in public.

It’s crazy when you think about it, they provide a vital service in our communities but accept ever increasing regulation over their property without a peep and fear of being ‘outed’ as a landlord.
 
And yet so many in the Dail are landlords
32 currently declared infact
Yes and it begs the question of why even TDs who provide rental accommodation are reluctant to speak out about additional restrictions. It’s not like they’re in a secret drug cartel and killing or damaging citizens with their product.

They supply housing - necessary for people who can’t afford or don’t want to buy but don’t qualify for any form of social housing. I don’t understand why that’s such a problem in this country.
 
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If I was young today and working had some spare cash I would forward fund my pension ,I would not become a landlord,
Same for me. I think the fact that one can access ARF and is not stuck with annuity made the option even more attractive and I wonder if it is also one of the factors of reduced individual investment in the rental sector.
 
Its a long perceived stigma and it's not going to change. Much like how banks are pilloried constantly, rich or moderately wealthy are perceived and BMW drivers
 
If I was young today and working had some spare cash I would forward fund my pension ,I would not become a landlord,
This is an interesting one. I think the opposite.

I have an undrawn pension and an investment property. I've had the investment property for 22 years and it's paid for itself 2 times over, 3x in valuation and will provide me with a good income in retirement. So a "free" pension as well as the excess income over the years compared to all the pension contributions over the years.

(When I bought the commentary was we were in a bubble prices were too high, I think I paid the highest price for a house in my local area).

Not saying it's not work or effort or risk or heartache at times. I have had good and bad tenants over the years and a property collapse, but on balance it was my best financial decision.

The level of negativity circulating the market is hard to fathom. For the vast majority the market is incredibly strong, rents are at all time highs and rising by comparison in 2012 rents were falling, it was hard to get tenants and the economy was brutal. I don't see the doom and gloom.
 
The level of negativity circulating the market is hard to fathom. For the vast majority the market is incredibly strong, rents are at all time highs and rising by comparison in 2012 rents were falling, it was hard to get tenants and the economy was brutal. I don't see the doom and gloom.
It is the every expanding restrictions.

Selling with a tenant in situ decreases the value, it some cases you may not be able to sell at all. Rent controls in place for the last 10 years. 'Market rent' going forward seems to be what the RTB think is a fair rent not what a willing tenant would pay. If your tenant doesn't pay rent, causes thousands in damage, you are years and lawyers fees getting them out. A mistake in the paperwork can have huge reprecussions - a rent increase 4 years ago is invalid and the overcharge must be returned to the tenant. If these new rules have unintended consequences (highly likely) there will be a further harsh reaction from the government. I could go on and on ....

If it was simply a strong market and good rents, landlords would not be complaining.
 
We rented years ago in NL and the system then was like applying for a mortgage here, we had to provide the agency with all kinds of documentation, work certs, plus a guarantor as we had no rental history in the country. We also had to pay three months upfront. Could be different now.
It will become like this here. Until, of course, there is more legislation intervention preventing landlords from 'discriminating' or something
 
Yes and it begs the question of why even TDs who provide rental accommodation are reluctant to speak out about additional restrictions. It’s not like they’re in a secret drug cartel and killing or damaging citizens with their product.
They are terrified of being associated in any way with people who own rental property - even the ones who do themselves, who practically apologize for doing so. Social media, and a young generation of left-leaning journalists have been significant amplifiers and reinforcers.

This started during the credit crunch and Troika bailout - lots of people started listening to the 'burn it all down' wing of the economics community, learned to hate bankers, developers, speculators, bondholders, the ECB, the IMF, FF, etc and more or less became radicalized against capitalism and the whole concept of investment.

And they exited those years furious that that list of baddies seemed to more or less get away with it and/or just move on to something else. That anger and resentment didn't go though and it's been steered towards property owners and in particular - property owners unwise enough to display their apparent wealth to the public in the form of bricks and mortar they not only parade in front of the people, but actually let them sleep in. Worse - these investors aren't just taking a share of a company's profits resulting from prices set by some executives probably abroad, or bond coupons anonymously credited to their bank accounts, they are literally taking wages out of the hands of struggling ordinary people...

It really went wrong for the Irish rental market when the junior govt partner, Labour, got it's policy of introducing rent control imposed a decade ago. Why it has turned out to be a particular problem is that having gone along with it and introduced it, FG then got boxed in to not wanting to criticize their own policy choice. FF were still trying to go through the Irish political equivalent of readmission to the human race, having been blamed for bankrupting the country, so there was no interest there in saying, or even thinking, anything about the realities of capitalism and markets.

Fast forward a few years and another significant thing happened. coalition government and/or 'confidence and supply' (similar) between FF and FG effectively meant Ireland had no right-of-centre political opposition party of any significance. And rent control had been absorbed into government policy.

In a non-failing political system there should be strong or at lease robust opposition to government - otherwise you get bad government. On this policy there has been none. Ordinarily you would expect a government introducing rent control, seeing private tenancy numbers peak at that time and then fall year after year afterwards, would start to get heat from a centre-right opposition - whose politicians would actively want to understand why it might be damaging and self-defeating, would be falling over themselves to appear on talk shows and be interviewed on the radio to explain to the public how it was a bad decision and how change was needed. But there was no political dynamic to allow that to happen.

Then, as the rental market got worse, and the population increased along with household formation, there was more and more pressure from the opposition to act. But the opposition - to this traditionally left-wing policy - was the Left. So what action did they push for, and the press go on and on about? Tougher rent control, greater tenant rights, 'putting manners on landlords', eviction bans.....etc.

Well the government could hardly argue much against that because to do so would involve arguing their own policy had been damaging and in any case, since their TDs had had no incentive to take an interest in why rent control was counterproductive, they wouldn't have the confidence or technical competence to argue the case anyway.

So Ireland has ended up in a spiral of politicians distancing themselves from 'landlordism' and engaging in competitive signalling about how much they are on the side of tenants - and there is, structurally, no political force that can pull the country out of that spiral.

It is classic political dysfunction.
 
Yes and it begs the question of why even TDs who provide rental accommodation are reluctant to speak out about additional restrictions.
In my opinion it's a good thing if elected representatives don't lobby on behalf of a group in which they have a vested, and possibly conflict of, interest.
 
In my opinion it's a good thing if elected representatives don't lobby on behalf of a group in which they have a vested, and possibly conflict of, interest.
Elected representatives should not lobby.

They could, however, publicly explain why, using their experience as landlords, the new restrictions won't achieve their goal; low rents and masses of supply
 
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