Which is better - UB 2.6% fixed for 4 years or Bank of Ireland

Discussion in 'The Fair Mortgage Rates Campaign' started by Sarenco, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:38 PM.

  1. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    If so, then you would probably recommend ptsb to avail of the 2% cash back and discounted first year rate , but move after one year to EBS and move after one day to BoI and either stay with them for 5 years or switch to AIB.

    That is fine but most people would not be prepared to do that.

    That is why a lender's record of fair treatment really matters. ptsb has the worst history of treating customers - there is no reason why anyone should borrow from them, unless they give a bigger loan than anyone else.

    BoI and KBC are next worst.

    That is why I strongly recommend that the best long-term value is likely to come from UB or AIB.

    So if one of the others are not clearly and significantly cheaper and if your circumstances are unlikely to change, then you should go for UB or AIB.

    Brendan
     
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  2. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Brendan

    We are just comparing two fixed rate products on this thread.

    I am of the view that speculating about what the mortgage market might look like in five years' time is futile. I think financial decisions should be made on the basis of what is actually known today.

    I wouldn't expect any bank to be "fair" - they are commercial enterprises with a profit motive.

    I wouldn't actually.
     
  3. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    It's not at all futile

    ptsb has had a policy of excessive charging for years.

    AIB has generally relied on low rates for new and existing customers to attract and retain business.

    BoI and KBC have used tricks and gimmicks to get business rather than charge low rates.

    Of course this might all change. In 4 years, ptsb may be the lowest and fairest lender and AIB may be screwing existing customers.

    Brendan
     
  4. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    In your opinion, obviously.

    I don't agree that it is worthwhile to make predictions about what the mortgage market might look like in 5 years' time.
    That's really the point.

    Incidentally, AIB are one of the few lenders that do not explicitly allow borrowers to move LTV brackets. I don't actually have a problem with that but some borrowers might consider that to be "unfair".

    Anyway, we have moved a long way from the subject matter of the thread.
     
  5. Dauhee

    Dauhee Registered User

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    all things being equal, shouldn't we go with bank of lesser evil, that doesn't try deceive and lock in, that has a history of treating customers fairly?
     
  6. Foobar

    Foobar Registered User

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    * Past performance is not indicative of future results.
     
  7. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    But all things aren't equal as RedOnion's spreadsheet clearly demonstrates.

    It is certainly laudable to pay a premium to reward what you perceive to be "good behaviour" in the past. Personally, I would just opt for the best deal available.
     
  8. Dauhee

    Dauhee Registered User

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    You have not read it correctly Sarenco, if 2 banks offer what ultimately costs the consumer the same, then . . . . .
     
  9. Dauhee

    Dauhee Registered User

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    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 1:49 PM
    Actually past performance of customer treatment is indicative.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 1:49 PM
  10. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Past performance is not indicative of future performance in investment management.

    But it's generally a good indicator in other areas. Premier League teams tend to beat 4th division teams.

    Culture in companies is slow to change. Obviously, it does. Ryanair changed very suddenly and very dramatically.

    I would imagine that this time next year, I would rank the 5 main lenders around the same as I rank them now.
    In 4 years, it will be roughly the same.

    In 20 years, it will probably be different.

    Brendan
     
  11. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    But the two offerings under discussion will not have the same cost to a customer.

    RedOnion's spreadsheet shows a difference of €1,543 between the BOI offering and the UB offering over a 5-year period, on the basis of the stated assumptions.
     
  12. Dauhee

    Dauhee Registered User

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    The UB offering is only for 4 years so needs to be compared with 4 year BOI. It appears you are contradicting yourself now, regarding speculation of the 5 year UB (or any other) offering.
     
  13. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    I don't think so.

    RedOnion was very upfront about his assumptions and there was no speculation involved. If you want to ignore the BOI 1% cashback at the end of Year 5, then that will obviously give you a different result.