Where to after School Board Of Management does not act?

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MidlandsBase

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We have had recourse to take our two children out of a local school and send them to other schools in our local town.

Brief background : I went in to make a complaint about a child who both mentally and psychologically bullies my oldest son (aged 11). There was an acting principal in charge at the time who, quite franckly, is incapable of dealing with this bully. The bullying has been witnessed by my son's class mates. This bully also has had numerous complaints from other parents about his behaviour.

We lodged a complaint. The acting principal focused her attention on our son instead of dealing with the bully. The Chairman of the BOM then got involved and started to throw around false accusations. A meeting was set up (set up by the acting principal informing my wife in an offending tone infront of the other parents). We attended the meeting and handed in a letter asking them to detail what the purpose of the meeting was (no notice was given about the agenda for the meeting but the offending manner in which it had been it being called indicated it was to bully us). We left the room whereupon the Chairman of the BOM blocked my wife's exit and shouted at her to get back to the school room. To say this was shocking is an understatement. Numerous events occurred during the few weeks when this acting principal was in charge, e.g., this bully kicked our son in the head. When my wife when in to complain she was told not to worry that it was dealt with. When my wife pushed as to how it was dealt with she was informed that the bully was given a private punishment which nobody knows about. Her response to a complaint about us saying this bully called another pupil a N***er was incredulous,we were told by this teacher, an Acting Principal, 'that child (who was called the name) is well able to stand up for herself'. A disgraceful response from any adult let alone one in a senior teaching position. This is just a sample of the complaints we put to her.

We have written to the Chairman of the BOM, Secretary of BOM and the Principal outlining the series of events which lead to us making the complaint. I'm sure some of the events are news to the Chairman of the BOM (but I suspect not to the principal).

After about 5 weeks we have had no response to a series of questions put to them. The department of education will not get involved in any complaints as they say it is up to the BOM to deal with the issue. I have written a complaint to the patron of this school but what further recourse do we have? Ombudsman for Children?
 
I'm not sure I understand what is that you want?

You've moved your children to another school, where I trust they have settled in.

What is it that you want to happen at their former school?
 
Do you think that, as outlined by the OP, the actions of the BOM and acting principal were acceptable?
Are you suggesting that the OP should adopt an "I'm alright jack" approach?
Do you think it is acceptable that two children have been driven out of their school?

MidlandsBase, in common with many residents associations, club committees and other boards comprised of unpaid amateurs, Boards of Managements of schools are frequently worse than useless.

Yes, you can make a complaint to the Department of Education and Skills and to the Ombudsman for Children. For details go to the "How can I make a complaint about a teacher or a school?" section of their website and click on the "Complaints Procedure" link.

Best of luck!
 
Thirsty said:
I'm not sure I understand what is that you want?

You've moved your children to another school, where I trust they have settled in.

What is it that you want to happen at their former school?
Click to expand...

In terms of Purple just said we will not adopt an I'm alright now approach. These people are in positions of powers which they have abused. I know of existing parents who are in the same situation as us in that this bully continues to bully other students and this teacher does nothing. As it is a small public school and of a minority religion these parents are very reluctant to act for fear of retribution towards their children. We, at least, can now openly complain.

I know I wouldn't like to send my children to a school where private punishments are acceptable - would you? would you not prefer that something was done about it either through a change of BOM chairman or an apology from the school for their disgraceful behaviour - whether my children where in the school or not?
 
Purple said:
Do you think that, as outlined by the OP, the actions of the BOM and acting principal were acceptable?
Are you suggesting that the OP should adopt an "I'm alright jack" approach?
Do you think it is acceptable that two children have been driven out of their school?

MidlandsBase, in common with many residents associations, club committees and other boards comprised of unpaid amateurs, Boards of Managements of schools are frequently worse than useless.

Yes, you can make a complaint to the Department of Education and Skills and to the Ombudsman for Children. For details go to the "How can I make a complaint about a teacher or a school?" section of their website and click on the "Complaints Procedure" link.

Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Hi Purple.
Thanks for the support. We have contacted the Dept of Education and bizzarely they do not get involve in complaints. All complaints must go through the BOM. No indication from their viewpoint on what happens if the BOM do not even engage. They do state that the Ombudsman for Children should therefore be contacted so I think we should go down that route.

We have heard today of a child in the class my son used to be in goes to sleep distressed thinking about the bullying that other child does. This teacher also brings some pupils to one side to pass on snide comments, etc and say to them not to tell their parents. This happened to this particular child recently and a few times to our son. So enough is enough - I don't want to be the person in ten years time who looks back and says we should have done something. We have enough history in our institutions where that has happened.
 
NPC (National Parents' Council) should be able to guide you:

[broken link removed]

With respect to bullying:

[broken link removed]

The school should have a Parents' Association ..... it's a requirement by law.

BOM Handbook - look at page 318 for Complaints' Procedure:

[broken link removed]

You'll get all the info you need there.

Note: Complaints' Procedure has to be followed step by step as outlined in the handbook (Appendix 50)

It has been agreed by the DES, the INTO (Irish National Teachers' Organisation) and CPSMA (Catholic Primary School Managers' Association).
 
MidlandsBase said:
Hi Purple.
Thanks for the support. We have contacted the Dept of Education and bizzarely they do not get involve in complaints. All complaints must go through the BOM. No indication from their viewpoint on what happens if the BOM do not even engage. They do state that the Ombudsman for Children should therefore be contacted so I think we should go down that route.

We have heard today of a child in the class my son used to be in goes to sleep distressed thinking about the bullying that other child does. This teacher also brings some pupils to one side to pass on snide comments, etc and say to them not to tell their parents. This happended to this particular child recently and a few times to our son. So enough is enough - I don't want to be the person in ten years time who looks back and says we should have done something. We have enough history in our institutions where that has happened.
Click to expand...

You are being fobbed off by the Department. Push them; ask for the name of the person that you are talking to, ask them for a copy of their complaints procedures etc.
 
DES won't get involved as it is a BOM matter.

Complaints' Procedure as linked to by me must be followed.
 
PaddyBloggit said:
NPC (National Parents' Council) should be able to guide you:

[broken link removed]

With respect to bullying:

[broken link removed]

The school should have a Parents' Association ..... it's a requirement by law.

BOM Handbook - look at page 318 for Complaint's Procedure:

[broken link removed]

You'll get all the info you need there.

Note: Complaints' Procedure has to be followed step by step as outlined in the handbook (Appendix 50)

It has been agreed by the DES, the INTO (Irish National Teachers' Organisation) and CPSMA (Catholic Primary School Managers' Association).
Click to expand...

Great post. Very clear.
 
I didn't indicate that I was in agreement with what has been reported; and I wouldn't do in any event, we are only getting one side of the story.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, that's not an indication that we aren't being told the truth here.

You've taken action in what you believe is in your child's best interests (removed them from the school), which is fine.

PaddyBloggit is absolutely spot on; there is a very clear procedure to be followed in terms of complaints.

But my question is still valid - what is it that you want to happen at their former school?

If you don't know what you want, how will you know you've achieved it?
 
PaddyBloggit said:
NPC (National Parents' Council) should be able to guide you:

[broken link removed]

With respect to bullying:

[broken link removed]

The school should have a Parents' Association ..... it's a requirement by law.

BOM Handbook - look at page 318 for Complaints' Procedure:

[broken link removed]

You'll get all the info you need there.

Note: Complaints' Procedure has to be followed step by step as outlined in the handbook (Appendix 50)

It has been agreed by the DES, the INTO (Irish National Teachers' Organisation) and CPSMA (Catholic Primary School Managers' Association).
Click to expand...

Hi Paddy,

Thanks for that. We have followed through on all of these links - we had five weeks to do so! You will notice though that the Complaint's procedures stops at the BOM and goes no further. That is our issue. The Dept of Education have then devolved any further action thereafter to HSE, An Garda (both for abuse cases) or the Ombudsman for Children. We have a written and signed letter from Dept of Ed to this effect. The latter is where this is headed in relation to the bullying by this child - I think if a child is kicked in the head then the bully should be seen to be dealt with. If the school doesn't deal with it at all then perhaps it will take an enquiry by the Ombudsman's office to make them take more care of the children in their charge and tackle this ongoing bullying issue once and for all.

However the handbook you linked to did highlight the role of the patron in this so we have communicated the incidents to him.

By the way the school in question is not a catholic primary school but at least the role of the patron should be the same so we will see what happens from that regard. The department used to have an inspectorate involved but seems to be no longer the case.

Thanks for the links though. It is much appreciated.
 
Thirsty said:
I didn't indicate that I was in agreement with what has been reported; and I wouldn't do in any event, we are only getting one side of the story.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, that's not an indication that we aren't being told the truth here.

You've taken action in what you believe is in your child's best interests (removed them from the school), which is fine.

PaddyBloggit is absolutely spot on; there is a very clear procedure to be followed in terms of complaints.

But my question is still valid - what is it that you want to happen at their former school?

If you don't know what you want, how will you know you've achieved it?
Click to expand...


As stated above the complaints procedure stops at the BOM hence the title of my thread.

In relation to whether I am telling the truth here I see no advantage in me sitting down to make up or embellish a story. My query was what happens after the BOM fails to act. The complaints procedures do not deal with this in anyway whatsoever. We have looked into this in detail for the last 5 weeks. The complaints procedure preproposes that the BOM will actually do something on foot of the complaint. In this case they have done absolutely nothing and are probably hoping we will just go away.

The story is straight forward and we could add so much more about this particular teacher and the bullying child but what I stated above encompasses the attitude of this teacher and their inapproproate response to a valid complaint. I am sure we are not the only parents to have suffered this.

We want an apology for the way an incident whereby our child got kicked in the head was dealt with and an apology from the BOM Chairman for the behaviour he displayed towards my wife by shouting at her and blocking her exit from a school building. I think that is not too much to ask.
 
PaddyBloggit said:
DES won't get involved as it is a BOM matter.

Complaints' Procedure as linked to by me must be followed.
Click to expand...

hence our predicament Paddy. The BOM are failing to act so the procedure does not go further than the school. The Ombudsman or the school patron may at least bring some closure to it.
 
The school are obliged to have a policy on bullying. Have you asked for a copy of this?

If you are getting no response I have no doubt but that a solicitor's letter could work wonders.
 
Thanks Paddy. We have dropped off an email to their helpline so ask for clarification on the processes.
 
Willowchase said:
The school are obliged to have a policy on bullying. Have you asked for a copy of this?

If you are getting no response I have no doubt but that a solicitor's letter could act wonders.
Click to expand...

They do have a policy on bullying and racism, etc but obviously, in this case, it depends on who is doing the bullying.

We really don't want to go down the legal route as sending a solicitors letter does not force them to respond either. They can ignore that as well but I understand what you are getting at. I think having a body like the Ombudsman investigating how they handled these complaints and their response might be more beneficial but the legal option is always there of course but it's not our initial one, for the moment.
 
I can understand the need you feel for an apology.

Personally, however, I wonder, given the amount of time, effort and energy this will take out of your life - is it really worth it?

If you were in position to effect real change, then I could see that the effort might be worthwhile.
 
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