Where are we on the 3.25% margin issue?

Brendan Burgess

I gather that the Appeals Committee is rejecting complaints from people who are being charged 3.25%.

I see no point in going to the FSO. They have rejected complaints on this issue in the past. And even if they were to uphold a complaint, I am sure that ptsb would take it to the High Court anyway.

So it's essential that a group is formed to fund a challenge in the High Court to determine the issue for once and for all.



Frequent Poster
Hi Brendan (and all interested in this area), the margin issue is going to court (High Court) as it is the most important issue of the Redress Process but is one that PTSB are keeping their existing stance (namely that the Margin of 3.25% is the one appropriate) to the loans. I have done alot of research and investigation and spoken to a large bank of affected customers to enable me to bring the matter forward with suitable evidence to strengthen our case. I am not using the processes of the FSO as it is more worthwhile to ask the questions of PTSB in court rather than trying to prove an error in an FSO decision.
At present I have approx 150 of these cases which are now all having to go to the court process. It is certainly not acceptable to me that these cases have to go to the court process, as the matter should be resolved directly through the enforcement investigation, but that is not happening as yet. While I know that not all will result in having to go through the court route it will be necessary for each case to register its intent (there is a time clock ticking here) and we will need the winning of some to benefit the others. All who are affected are as such stalled in the Redress Appeals because until this matter is resolved there is little point in continuing the Redress Appeal process when the issues that are involved will be directly affected by the result we achieve in the margin matter. I would welcome hearing from all who are affected as the customers who have contacted me to date have hugely helped in forming the grounds for the court challenge, but I am certain there is more evidence that I can gather and learn when speaking and reviewing each persons account of what occurred. (No matter how trivial you believe it is tell me of it). This issue also affects all the other 'Margins' for example 2.25%, 2.35%, 1.68%, 3.25% and 3.35%. The numbers are vast and I believe a coordinated effort will give our best chance of a correct result, which is that the margin used in the loan offer should still prevail following the natural expiry of the fixed rate. (And yes Brendan there is a margin used in the loan offers). I will be organising a meeting in a hotel in the coming week or so to explain what it is I am proposing in this area. Hope this helps in letting you know where I am at, at present. Anyone affected or those who believe they have important information can of course get in touch at info@padraickissane.ie
I will be back with an update soon Padraic

Brendan Burgess

This was in last Sunday's Sunday Times

Investigation into Permanent TSB failing mortgage-holders, says adviser

1,074 customers received compensation after they were unfairly denied tracker mortgages (Crispin Rodwell)

THE Central Bank of Ireland has been warned that an enforcement investigation arising from mortgage overcharging by Permanent TSB is failing hundreds of affected customers, who may be forced to challenge the outcome through the courts.

The investigation started last summer, when the Central Bank ordered Permanent TSB to begin a redress programme, refunding interest and paying compensation to 1,074 customers who were unfairly denied tracker mortgages after fixing their loan rates temporarily.

While all are being offered a return to tracker terms, the interest margins on more than 500 of the loans exceed two percentage points, with some having margins as high as 3.35 points over the European Central Bank rate of 0.05%. According to Central Bank data, the average rate for tracker mortgages across all lenders was 1.07% in December.

Padraic Kissane, a financial adviser representing about 150 Permanent TSB customers, warned the Central Bank last week that borrowers were being left with no option but to challenge the bank’s high margins in court.

“There seems to be a fundamental flaw in this investigation,” Kissane has said in an email seen by The Sunday Times.

“The redress process is now redundant for many hundreds of affected customers, resulting in all cases having to go through the courts system . . . I fail to see why 500 cases or more need to be registered in the court system in the middle of an enforcement inquiry. Many see the investigation as failing them.”

Permanent TSB said redress had been offered to about 90% of those affected by the overcharging.

“In terms of rates offered, the bank simply offered the appropriate rate that is relevant for each customer given their circumstances and the time they began the mortgage,” the bank said.

“This is highlighted by the fact that, of 1,074 customers who were [affected] by the issue, more than two-thirds were given the opportunity to move to a tracker rate currently of 2.4% or less.”

Permanent TSB said its redress programme had an independent appeals body, which was “designed to enable customers to have matters considered without the need, expense and delays involved in going to court”.

The Central Bank has ordered that all the banks submit a framework for a tracker book review by the end of next month.

The Sunday Times revealed last month that AIB had assembled a team of up to 300 employees whose remit would be to examine the bank’s tracker mortgage book to ascertain whether it had any liability regarding redress to its customers.


Just wondering has anyone any further update on the rate issue? I gathered that cases were due to progress to court around June. Has this happened for anyone as yet? Any news would be greatly appreciated!