When will the FSO determine that the Tracker examination is complete?

mccoypat94

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132
I wish to bring a case to the FSO against KBC, I believe (and have been advised) that I have a case worth pursuing.
I have my final rejection letter from KBC , however the FSO say you can log a compliant but it wont be dealt with until the completion of the review!
As far as I can see KBC believe that they have completed the review. Why the indefinate wait for people?
Anybody else come up agianst this?
 

Duggie

Registered User
Messages
32
I have a complaint logged as well, but am with a different bank.

Unfortunately my bank, Danske, is still being reviewed by the CBI, so I am in limbo.

Have you spoken to anyone in the Ombudsmans office? They are generally helpful. Does your final rejection letter confirm that KBCs position is in line with the CBIs?
 

peemac

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Messages
1,000
Kbc say they have completed the examination, but the Central Bank are still doing final checks.

The recent central bank tracker update will give more information.
 

IdesofMarch

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Messages
281
I wish to bring a case to the FSO against KBC, I believe (and have been advised) that I have a case worth pursuing.
I have my final rejection letter from KBC , however the FSO say you can log a compliant but it wont be dealt with until the completion of the review!
As far as I can see KBC believe that they have completed the review. Why the indefinate wait for people?
Anybody else come up agianst this?

When the Central Bank of Ireland state that the review is completed, then the FSO will examine individual cases.
 

TrackerThieves

Registered User
Messages
141
I am dealing with EBS they were meant to be completed by December 2017. When i rang in December i was told it was being extended till March then i was told it would be June. I rang this week and they suggested they will not be complete by the end of the month. this is also after a 9 month wait while they investigated my case after patiently waiting while i received the usual monthly letters. Is it the central bank that is still investigating? or is it the individual banks that are not completed and extending the deadlines. They seem to keep breaking deadline after deadline without penalty.
 

Banking17

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108
I have informed that next CB report will be final report when examination is complete and that no interim update is proposed.

Disappointing as customers like me awaiting a decision will have long wait with no access to any information this year it appears ❓
 

TrackerThieves

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141
last time i spoke with AIB tracker helpline he gave the impression it would not till the end of the year at least, he even had the cheek to put the blame at the central bank complaining that they won't let them complete the investigation. I can't understand why 1 or 2 bank are holding everything up and why the FSO can't proceed with the banks who have finished their investigation.
 

WizardDr

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Messages
1,252
The reason plain and simple why you should be happy that the CBI have not yet concluded is that if they did and your case did not get resolved then you would only have FSPO to rely on (and of course the Courts - if you can afford it.)

As far as I can see Mr Padraic Kissane is of the view that there are a number of cohorts still remaining and that there are also a number of individual cases that on their specific facts should get restored.

CBI have conducted a lengthy review and based on their own previous statements much of what they are doing is challenging particular Banks positions on specifics. Not to bore you but I do recall KBC resisted tooth and nail Mr Kissanes previous assertions (see AAM threads). Whilst they have relented somewhat you can rightly assume that Banks are resisting strongly - as they have done from the start - on any and all restorations.

Given then the number back on tracker is adjacent to 38,000 I think some patience is called for as not a single one of these cases got restored on a 'whim' but was down to hard nosed detail. Again a specialist area of Mr Kissane's.

When CBI does conclude, then and only then will FSPO recommence. I think this is an entirely practical position adopted by Mr. Deering. What is of interest with Mr Deering is that a Judgment by Judge McCracken when he was in High Court ruled that the FSOP has a special power of demanding production of documents. Technically what FSOP had done was when it was dealing with cases was to write to the Bank and suggest that they forward any other material that the Bank deemed relevant. Judge MCCracken ruled that this was handing the decision of what was relevant to the Bank and that has changed.

So I think it is fair to assume that each and every Bank has pockets of resistance and that this is not a particularly new thing, its just that the original 'concessions' which in hindsight one wonders how the Banks ever thought they would hold those positions on 'black and white' is now down to more grey cases.
 
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demoivre

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2,727
The reason plain and simple why you should be happy that the CBI have not yet concluded is that if they did and your case did not get resolved then you would only have FSPO to rely on.

The courts would be the last resort for borrowers.
 

WizardDr

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1,252
Technically the Courts is the last resort but the thread was about FSPO but the exposure on costs means it is not in reality an option at all and that is merely paraphrasing the Chief Justice Frank Clarke who raised the access to justice matter recently. In essence there isn't for virtually all of us.

I am though impressed with Judge McCracken's judgment which is on FSPO website and I would like your view on that as I think it could be very important.
 
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demoivre

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2,727
Technically the Courts is the last resort but the thread was about FSPO but the exposure on costs means it is not in reality an option at all and that is merely paraphrasing the Chief Justice Frank Clarke who raised the access to justice matter recently. In essence there isn't for virtually all of us.

I am though impressed with Judge McCracken's judgment which is on FSPO website and I would like your view on that as I think it could be very important.

Only saw this now. Do you have a link- can't see that judgement.
 

Duggie

Registered User
Messages
32
I have informed that next CB report will be final report when examination is complete and that no interim update is proposed.

Disappointing as customers like me awaiting a decision will have long wait with no access to any information this year it appears ❓
Is that still the case? Surely this has gone on so long that they should be providing regular updates?
 

Banking17

Registered User
Messages
108
I got this confirmation from Central Bank recently. I'm waiting almost 3 years for a decision from Ulster Bank. Now they appear to blame the CB for the delay as it appears they have oversight of cases and overall process.

Campaign appears to have died considerably unfortunately. Oireachtas Finance Committee have advised CB Governor to appear on October 4th so may have to wait for update.
 

demoivre

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2,727
Campaign appears to have died considerably unfortunately. Oireachtas Finance Committee have advised CB Governor to appear on October 4th so may have to wait for update.

Ultimately it's a waiting game but lets not forget that in the Central Bank's last update of their FAQ in April 2018 they said :


"As at end-March 2018, c.37,100 accounts have been identified by lenders where a right to, or the option of, a tracker rate of interest and/or the correct tracker rate of interest was not provided to customers in accordance with lenders’ contractual or regulatory requirements.

While the Central Bank’s view remains that the majority of affected customers have been identified, we expect that there will be some further increase in the number of affected customers before the Examination is concluded."

The CB themselves say they are expecting an increase in the numbers affected. The basis for including those extra cases is what I am waiting to see! There is enough ammunition, in the quote above, for some borrowers to bring a case to the FSO imo.
 

Duggie

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Messages
32
I think its a question of utter frustration with the process demoivre. Problem is that the FSO won’t take on cases which are still in scope. Most of us have logged complaints, but are in limbo until the CBI concludes the examination. It’s now 5 months since their last update. Banks are quite happy to hide behind this, while we all want to know what exactly is going on. Is it delayed because they are resisting? Or are they just playing hardball?
 

Banking17

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Messages
108
I think its a question of utter frustration with the process demoivre. Problem is that the FSO won’t take on cases which are still in scope. Most of us have logged complaints, but are in limbo until the CBI concludes the examination. It’s now 5 months since their last update. Banks are quite happy to hide behind this, while we all want to know what exactly is going on. Is it delayed because they are resisting? Or are they just playing hardball?

Just contacted CB again today . Confirmed that no further interim report will issue. They don't know if Examination will conclude this year.

This whole process had always been shrouded in secrecy to the detriment of customer's. Now it's really bizarre for customers
such as I waiting almost 3 years for a decision.
 

WizardDr

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1,252
@Banking17 I think in fairness the battle started by Mr Kissane and where the CBI eventually arrived late to the party should be viewed as the US entering WWII late but they changed the outcome. It is fair to assume that Banks are resisting the CBI every step of the way. The problem is that CBI apparently admitted that they did not have the powers until 2013 to force the Banks. They said that they cannot force retrospection.
So the longer this is dragged out the better the results for those not yet redressed. If they close up shop today then that s the end of CBI involvement.

The question that could be posed is how does the Unfair Terms in Contract (UTC) and the Code of Conduct both get ignored in this debate thus far. In particular UTC had it been implemented correctly should have been sufficient. As Code of Conduct effectively listed key parts of UTC you would imagine CBI had the powers. It gets curious/
 
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