What will happen to the warehouse on retirement?

JD2021

Registered User
Messages
144
Moved from the thread about Vulture Funds not offering fixed rate options

I'm glad this issue got some attention and it's real concern. Whilst some people had mortgages in arrears sold to vulture/investment funds , many were not in arrears. Obviously those with no arrears or historical repayment issues have an opportunity to switch , those that may have cleared /Reduced arrears and are paying their mortgages are stuck on exceptionally high interest rates and have Zero option's.

The slightest interest rate increase is likely to infact lead to either an inability to afford increases on monthly repayments, increased arrears and a whole host of new problems. This on top of already increased cost of living challenges.

Obviously Vulture/Funds are not obligated to offer fixed or reduced rates and some folks will have little sympathy for those in arrears or with historical problems.

I don't know if there's a solution but it would seem to me if Vulture/Investment funds don't react, they'll face more problems with arrears and costs likely increasing.

Obviously distressed mortgage holders could just start paying interest only but all this does is kick problems down an even longer road.

Case in Point

My situation as an example, and I'm one of the lucky one's.

I'm on 3.9% and have been since my mortgage sold to a Vulture fund in 2019. I had arrears , primarily as a result of reduced income due to illness . Managed to reduce arrears substantially and have been paying my mortgage in Full for over 2 years. I've a relatively small balance of €38k but do have warehoused split (entered into with original mortgage provider) , no payment no interest but will mature in 2034 and will need to be dealth with. I'm 55 and single.

I've a long term illness , will likely never work full time again but can manage albeit cost of living has crucified me. House worth about €170k , very rural and I've Zero options. Some will suggest sell , not so simple , I'll definitely not have enough to purchase another property and whilst I'll have savings , I'd likely be looking at a rent , 3 times more than what my mortgage payment is and as folks will know , Zero security of tenancy and all the challenges that go with renting, even finding a place would be a nightmare.

I certainly don't expect a dig out but I've limited earning potential, Vulture fund will not entertain any discussion of fixed or reduced rate , fine but if rates increase , I'll have but one option, pay what I can afford (€260 PM) current full mortgage and watch arrears grow. I still have the costs of insurance, maintainence, utilities etc.

I'm actually lucky with such a small mortgage payment, unlucky with illness , what those in more serious arrears or even No arrears but previous black marks, higher mortgage payments, Children , additional costs will face, I shudder to think.

I'd honestly not be at all surprised if mortgage arrears and defaults grow in the coming years.

My situation Obviously is not intended to be reflective but just to show at a very basic Level the challenges many thousands will face in the coming months.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
have warehoused split (entered into with original mortgage provider) , no payment no interest but will mature in 2034 and will need to be dealt with. I'm 55 and single.

Hi JD

I presume you were with AIB? And it is part of the split agreement that you do not need to clear the warehouse until 2034? (All the other banks have review clauses.)

As you have €38k on 3.9% , a 2% increase in rates will increase your repayments by €15 a week.

Can you afford that? That is the main issue.


Do you have any savings or investments?

Brendan
 
With 12 years to go, I wouldn't watch it, but would not be unduly worried about it.

I have proposed a solution to the government called a Mortgage Assistance Payment.

In summary, it would be like the Housing Assistance Payment. If someone would qualify for HAP, but has a mortgage, then the government would make the equivalent HAP payment. And it would be a second mortgage secured on the home.

It would be a lot cheaper than the Mortgage to Rent.

I also think that it would need to be adapted for the mortgages maturing with warehouses.

Brendan
 
You have my sympathies on this @JD2021. Like all of us you have a housing need and the house you are in isn't luxurious and probably best suited to your needs.

Would a personal insolvency arrangement (PIA) be a good arrangement for you down the line when the warehoused part matures? There are reports of PIAs being put in place that see people on interest only until their late 90s. No judge will see you on the street in your circumstances if you have a very low income and a housing need that can't be met otherwise.
 
Hi JD

I presume you were with AIB? And it is part of the split agreement that you do not need to clear the warehouse until 2034? (All the other banks have review clauses.)

As you have €38k on 3.9% , a 2% increase in rates will increase your repayments by €15 a week.

Can you afford that? That is the main issue.


Do you have any savings or investments?

Brendan
Morning Brendan, great article over the weekend, I was actually with PTSB, sold to Start.

I hadn't thought about what the net increase might be , just kinda giving an example but if its only €15 I'll be fine . I used up savings etc to reduce arrears etc , knew I'd have limited earnings etc and felt it prudent to deal with this ASAP .
 
You have my sympathies on this @JD2021. Like all of us you have a housing need and the house you are in isn't luxurious and probably best suited to your needs.

Would a personal insolvency arrangement (PIA) be a good arrangement for you down the line when the warehoused part matures? There are reports of PIAs being put in place that see people on interest only until their late 90s. No judge will see you on the street in your circumstances if you have a very low income and a housing need that can't be met otherwise.
Morning thank you , honestly at the time of sorting out arrears etc a PIA was suggested, it was a call made at the time to keep that option in the table. My illness wasn't clear defined and I wasn't sure how it would effect ability to earn etc.

It remains an option and perhaps in time.

Really just wanted to highlight a case sample , I've received excellent advice on AAM and indeed when I was sorting out arrears etc, I joined and got great advice.
 
I calculate that a €38,000 mortgage at 3.9% with 12 years to go should be €330 per month.

Are you sure that your figures are correct?

Brendan
Yes Brendan repayment is currently €260 PM , I'd have to double check balance but its pretting close to €38k , wharehoused is €22k.

Complicated as I've a split arrangement due to a remortgage in 2004 , so bizzarely, I've four individual mortgage account numbers which caused initial confusion.

Original mortgage , 2 account numbers, one on variable rate , one warehoused.

Top Up Mortgage, 2 account numbers , one on variable rate , one warehoused.

But overall balances correct , give or take a few €100 .
 
With 12 years to go, I wouldn't watch it, but would not be unduly worried about it.

I have proposed a solution to the government called a Mortgage Assistance Payment.

In summary, it would be like the Housing Assistance Payment. If someone would qualify for HAP, but has a mortgage, then the government would make the equivalent HAP payment. And it would be a second mortgage secured on the home.

It would be a lot cheaper than the Mortgage to Rent.

I also think that it would need to be adapted for the mortgages maturing with warehouses.

Brendan
Excellent proposal Brendan.
 
wharehoused is €22k.

Hi JD

I wouldn't remotely worry about a warehouse of this size due after 12 years. It is not increasing, but your income should increase with inflation. So it will probably be easily affordable in retirement.

I hadn't thought of a PIA but with such an amount, it would definitely not be worth the hassle.

Brendan
 
I was actually with PTSB, sold to Start.

OK, so there is a review clause in your split mortgage.

In theory, Start can ask you if you can afford more and would then move some from the warehouse to the active part.

However, I think that this is unlikely given the small amount of the warehouse.

If you have savings, after keeping enough for an emergency fund, you should pay down the active part as it will save you 3.9%. There is a small risk that if you clear the active part, they will then ask you to start paying the warehouse, but it's no harm if you do as it will give you peace of mind.

Brendan
 
So your total mortgage is €60k
You are paying €1,000 interest a year
So your interest rate on €60k is 1.6%

Not bad. Definitely wouldn't be switching!

Brendan
I presume you are reaching 1.6% on over all amount Brendan, even though I'm not paying interest on whare housed amount and 3.9% on non warehoused amount
 
Back
Top