What will happen to me - will I end up in jail?

C

clare

Guest
Hi,

I'm new to this site. I need help/advice. I have a loan with BOI. I had payment protection on it. My job contract came to an end. I found out payment protection didn't cover someone on a contract. I lived in Dublin and was in full time employment. I made repayments of EUR230 per month. All that changed 2 years ago. I became pregnant and moved to the West of Ireland where I still reside. My child is almost two. I couldn't find work for ages. I have been working part time for last 8 months. I came to an arrangement with BOI that I would pay them EUR30 per month. I have been doing this for over a year now. My original loan was EUR10,000. I lodged EUR5,000 recently. My branch manager said that the loan would be restructured. But I found out that BOI will not restructure the loan and expect me to pay the original amounts of EUR230 per month. I have now received a letter from BOI saying that they are referring the matter to their solicitors. I am worried sick. I have no prospect of getting full time work and certainly not at the same rate as I was paid in Dublin.

What can I do? What happens when the matter is handled by solicitors?
Will I end in court or go to jail?

Please please, any advice?

Thanks
 
Have a look at the key topics at the top of this forum which include some useful tips and resources for dealing with debt. Try contacting MABS for advice and assistance. That's what they're there for.

What did you understand as the "restructuring" that was to be carried out on the loan? Was anything ever put in writing about this? Did you get any earlier warnings about the situation before you ended up getting a final notice (?) or solicitors letter (?)? How much is currently outstanding on the loan at this stage? Are you making any repayments at all? What is your current income (including social welfare benefits if applicable)? What is the minimum that you could afford to repay? Even if you make an effort to pay a nominal amount within your means and without imposing hardship on you and your family any objective observer (including the courts if it comes to that) would generally look leniently on your situation I would imagine. I very much doubt that you would end up in jail over this! As I say MABS should be able to assist you. Get onto them immediately. Try to channel your energies into doing something constructive about this problem and not worrying unproductively about it. That may sound trite/patronising but it's very important to bear in mind.

Good luck.
 
You already made an arrrangement with the bank to pay 30 euro a month and you lodged a lump sum of 5k against the loan - why are they now changing that ? How much do you owe at this stage?. I know retail bankers aren't the brighest sparks ( I only ever met one intelligent retail banker ) but I can't believe that they can't see that no judge on the planet can or will force you to make repayments greater than amounts that you can afford. I'd go back to the manager in the first instance and tell him you had an agreement to pay 30 a month which you are doing and you paid a lump sum of 5k. Show him/her details of your income and the max. you can comfortably afford to repay and explain that no judge can change your income or your circumstances ( remember from above that bankers aren't that bright so you'll have to explain this point to him/her!) Relax a bit , you'll get it sorted. :)
 
Hi Clare, I 'm a solicitor with extensive experience of debt collection and the district court. Believe me when I tell you that no judge will put someone in jail for not being able to pay a debt. Judges put people in jail for debt only if either they believe the person has the means to pay, but won't or if that person fails to turn up in court so that the judge doesnt hear their side of the story.
And before they can even make an application to put someone in jail there are a number of court appearances to be made where the debtor will get the chance to explain how much they can pay. If you can afford it, get a solicitor to represent you and they will more than likely come to an arrangement with the bank as to how much you can afford to pay without a court appearance. If you cant, put down your expenditure and income in writing and show the bank what you can afford to pay and hopefully they will come to their senses.

It would be better if you could get it sorted quickly as you don't want to have to pay legal fees of both the bank and your own on top of the loan- but at least these are scale fees and relatively small.
 
Sorry - I missed the bit about the €30 p.m. revised repayment. Once again get onto MABS as they will help you do what demoivre and Vanilla are suggesting in terms of presenting details of your financial situation and (in)ability to pay.
 
Hi,

Many thanks to everyone who took time out to reply to me and put my mind at ease. I have been consistent with my repayments and after lodging the €5K, reducing my loan by half, I was puzzled as to why they want me to pay the original amounts again. I am meeting the branch manager this week and if I don't get any satisfaction, I will contact MABS (who have helped me before).
Incidently, when I met with a lady from MABS before, she mentioned that BOI frequently ignore/don't reply to letters MABS have sent them.

I won't let the bastards grind me down!

Thanks again.
 
clare said:
I have a loan with BOI. I had payment protection on it. My job contract came to an end. I found out payment protection didn't cover someone on a contract.
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If you were on contract at the time that you took out the loan, then you should be able to make a case that BOI mis-sold you the payment protection. They shouldn't have offered you (and charged you for) the protection that you could never claim against. This may allow you to reduce the total amount owed to BOI.
 
I am surprised that it is a criminal offence to owe money and you could go jail for it - in the uk it is not a criminal office to owe money unless it is to the government or TV licenses. Think of all the people who owes money on credit cards and mortgages surly if they become unemployed or thought illness they cannot make payments does everyone go to jail, if so then they will have to start building more prisons in Ireland.





 
royrogers said:
I am surprised that it is a criminal offence to owe money and you could go jail for it - in the uk it is not a criminal office to owe money unless it is to the government or TV licenses. Think of all the people who owes money on credit cards and mortgages surly if they become unemployed or thought illness they cannot make payments does everyone go to jail, if so then they will have to start building more prisons in Ireland.
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I'm sure one of the solicitors here can give the exact position but I think it is not so much the owing of the money which is a criminal offence but the ignoring of court orders etc. to make payments which could land you in jail.

On the matter of going to jail in this particular instance, even if it was at all likely that a court would jail in these circumstances, which I don't believe it is, I doubt BOI would want the sort of negative publicity putting some one in jail would bring on them, especially when from the post it is clear this person has been making good faith efforts to resolve the issue.
 
Debt is not a criminal offence. I think that creditors can use civil prosecutions to recoup debts or claim breach of contract etc.
 
Could I reinforce Rainyday's excellent point about the payment protection?

On the facts you've outlined, this screams out as a case of mis-selling of this notorious product.

BoI are very sensitive on this issue.

When you meet the branch manager, I would suggest that you lead the discussion with this point rather than the debt itself. Repeatedly make this point:

"I would never have dreamt of taking out this loan without adequate payment protection. You sold the protection to me. That's why I took out the loan. I want this settled now. Fully compensate me for the premiums I have paid for this worthless insurance cover and the interest you have charged me on it (because that is the really big scam they have been operating i.e. charging for the full amount of the insurance up front and rolling it into the loan to increase, surreptitiously, the size of the loan). Then I will continue to pay you €30/month until the loan is settled, provided the total amount of interest charged on the loan (over the new term) is no greater than what I would have been charged on the original terms (i.e. over the much shorter term of the loan)."

You must think of yourself as being in a strong position here.

They are in a weker position than you might think.

And get all of their calculations in writing - the ability of bankers to make elementary computational errors never ceases to amaze me.
 
You tell the bank manager what you can afford to pay not what they think you should pay. You have a baby therefore you could end up paying just 5euro per week if that is all you can afford and they should accept that. Do they charge for sending out letters and keep adding interest to the loan they do then you should ask them to stop adding interest and also to stop sending you out letter that does not help in the least. So be brave you owe the money so they have to take what you CAN AFFORD and you should keep back what you will need to live on confortable, get tough with these bank manager, I know they make you feel small, but it is people like you that they make mony on.
 
oysterman said:
Could I reinforce Rainyday's excellent point about the payment protection?

On the facts you've outlined, this screams out as a case of mis-selling of this notorious product.

.
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I agree, but the mis-selling is dependant on the original poster confirming that they were doing contract work at the time of taking out the loan.
 
When you say: "I have been consistent with my repayments and after lodging the €5K, reducing my loan by half, I was puzzled as to why they want me to pay the original amounts again". Are you sure that this actually happened? You said that you were making payments of 230 EUR a month and that then after one year, when presumably you paid nothing, you came to an arrangement to pay 30 EUR a month. Then you paid a 5 grand lump sum and the bank continued to ask you to pay 230 a month. I would check with the bank how they treated the lump some. If you did not pay anything for about a year you owed 230 X 12 in arrears, plus interest on the capital you had not paid off in that time. The bank almost certainly used the lump sum to pay off outstanding interest whereas you presumably thought that you were paying off 5 grand of the 10 grand loan. In fact unless you specifically said that the 5 grand was to pay off capital I guess that is what happened. You should confirm this with the bank. Be very careful of what you say, remember they are not your friends.
 
You maybe sure that the BANK IS NOT a friend they are in to make money and they will not give an inch. So you should have everything in writing from them. The 5kyou paid off will be taken as interest and you should check with bank what they have done with it as soon as possible go to your nearest free advice centre and ask for help. If you cannot afford to pay any money back then that is the bank hard luck. Do not be put in a position that you will have to go without food for yourself or family for the sake of the bank.


​
If they give it out to a collecting solicitor they bombard you with letters but just ignore them until they take you to court and then the court will decide what you can or can’t pay them.





Best of Luck



Fabulous
 
Fabulous said:
If they give it out to a collecting solicitor they bombard you with letters but just ignore them until they take you to court and then the court will decide what you can or can’t pay them.
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I don't know that ignoring them is the best bet, don't let them get to you but I think it might be an idea to respond to each one (keep copies) stating your position, that you are unable to pay in full and are open to suggestions for a reasonable payment plan. I think this would help your position in any eventual court case if there should be one.

If you have been unable to pay more than EUR30 per month you also need to negotiate some sort of concession on the interest accrued and depending on the amount of capital now outstanding the rate going forward because EUR30 will not have been covering the interest so your debt will have been rising.

The bank may be happy for this to continue on the assumption that at some time in the future your circumstances may improve and you will be able to make increased payments however this is not in your interest.
 
Fabulous said:

If they give it out to a collecting solicitor they bombard you with letters but just ignore them until they take you to court and then the court will decide what you can or can’t pay them.
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And then you have to pay their solicitors fees as well - good advice - NOT!
 
wowser said:
And then you have to pay their solicitors fees as well - good advice - NOT!
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Actually it is good advice, as when they give it to a solicitor they must stop adding interest and fix charges which is a very good thing.

Let the courts decide what you can pay.
 
A quick question are they still charging you for the payment protection?
 
Hi,

Thanks everyone for your advice. I have been trying in vain to make an appointment with my bank manager. I am really disappointed and annoyed by BOI's attitude. I have never received anything in writing from them except for the odd letter here and there asking me to increase my monthly payments.
A different person is assigned to my account at different times so there is no continuity with the one person. I even had one girl ring me asking me when would I get full time work, would I move back to Dublin? I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I had approached MABS before and they were acting on my behalf. I stupidly thought that if I paid BOI the lump sum of €5K, that that would take some pressure off me. I have had nothing in writing from head office or my local branch. I actually found out by going into my local branch and ringing head office that they had refused to restructure my loan. My local branch manager hadn't bothered to inform me. On two occasions I wrote letters to my branch manager asking him what was the status on my loan account and he didn't reply to either one. At this stage I am so sick of them stressing me out for the last 2 years that I feel like ignoring them and refusing to pay any more but that would probably make things worse.

I think I will approach MABS again. The interest is eating up all the repayments I make so I feel that this will be around my neck forever.
 
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