What type of properties are included in the redress scheme?

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Jim Stafford

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The Central Bank review covered 2 million mortgages, including residential and commercial. There is no doubt that the review includes commercial mortgages (Some of our clients have received redress letters on such mortgages.)

Jim Stafford
 

IdesofMarch

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Grand so, although it would have saved us a lot of time if you had just told us that in the first place.
Sarenco,

Hang on a minute, Jim Stafford has not backed up his "claim" with real documentary evidence, but what he is saying is the truth. You have not asked him for the basis of his posts. You have been outed, stop trolling my posts asking me for the basis of my comments. I do not need to provide these to you, whoever you are.
 
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Sarenco

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I didn't ask you for documentary evidence - I simply asked what was the basis for your claim.

If you simply told us that you have clients with commercial mortgages that had been deemed in scope, as Jim did, I would have been more than happy to accept that at face value. Why would I doubt your bona fides?

Instead, you initially offered your opinion as to why such mortgages should be in scope. There is obviously a difference between opinions and facts.
 

IdesofMarch

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I didn't ask you for documentary evidence - I simply asked what was the basis for your claim.

If you simply told us that you have clients with commercial mortgages that had been deemed in scope, as Jim did, I would have been more than happy to accept that at face value. Why would I doubt your bona fides?

Instead, you initially offered your opinion as to why such mortgages should be in scope. There is obviously a difference between opinions and facts.
What I do not understand is why ask a question when you know the answer. Please go away and bother someone else.
 

Sarenco

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Sorry Ides but I genuinely did not know the basis for your claim and hence the question. I've no idea why you would think otherwise.
 

IdesofMarch

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Read the CBI's framework for conducting tracker review dated December 2015 that I alluded to, before posting, you are literate. It is obvious that commercial loans are included. I even posted the CBI's definition of what a tracker interest rate is, to the thread and still the penny didn't drop. Come off it, you appear to be a learned legal eagle from your "bald assertion" remark directed at me earlier in the thread, you knew and knew only to well. 2+2 =4
 
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Webster

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First post, but have been a fan of the site for a while. Feel I need to commemt. I have to thank IdesofMarch and Jim Stafford for their enlightening posts regarding what properties are included in the tracker redress. I will be sending a complaint regarding my euribor commercial mortgages to my bank. I find that poster Sarenco is confrontational and has added nothing noteworthy to the thread. Just an observation.
 
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elacsaplau

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I must admit to be struggling to see why Sarenco is being subjected to such ire. From what I can see, he was just seeking clarification of the facts.

The OP's question, which Sarenco correctly noted, was not what type of mortgage is included but rather what type of property.

The guidelines refer to "buy to let" properties. I just don't see how it is obvious from this that other commercial loans are automatically included. I would have thought the opposite. Also, my sister had a commercial mortgage (on a tracker basis) and her bank told her that it did not qualify for redress. When she queried it, her bank quoted the CBI framework to her!

So, it seems that both Jim Stafford and IdesofMarch have come across commercial cases which have been treated within the redress exam. One possible explanation for this might be that different banks are taking different positions regarding this.

All that said, what is obvious is that commercial mortgages for consumers should be included in the redress exam.
 

Sarenco

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Read the CBI's framework for conducting tracker review dated December 2015 that I alluded to, before posting, you are literate. It is obvious that commercial loans are included.
Well, it certainly wasn't obvious to me that non-residential commercial loans were in scope – if it was I would have answered Dan's question myself.

As you pointed out yourself, the Central Bank's framework document only refers to PDH and BTL loans. If I take out a commercial loan to purchase my business premises that is obviously neither a PDH nor a BTL loan.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am not disputing that as a matter of fact that commercial mortgages are being treated as being in scope.
 

IdesofMarch

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Well, it certainly wasn't obvious to me that non-residential commercial loans were in scope – if it was I would have answered Dan's question myself.

As you pointed out yourself, the Central Bank's framework document only refers to PDH and BTL loans. If I take out a commercial loan to purchase my business premises that is obviously neither a PDH nor a BTL loan.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am not disputing that as a matter of fact that commercial mortgages are being treated as being in scope.
Then what are you disputing? As a by the way, if you take out a commercial loan to purchase your business premises and you let the premise to your business, then it is a btl loan.
 

Sarenco

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I'm not disputing the factual position – I really couldn't have any clearer on that point.

If I take out a loan to purchase a premises from which I intend to operate my business that is clearly not a BTL (buy to let) loan. I'm not buying the property with a view to letting it to anybody.
 

IdesofMarch

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I'm not disputing the factual position – I really couldn't have any clearer on that point.

If I take out a loan to purchase a premises from which I intend to operate my business that is clearly not a BTL (buy to let) loan. I'm not buying the property with a view to letting it to anybody.
Why on God's earth would you do that! You would have to be the Forest Gump of company structuring to be that stupid. I would say that cohort of commercial borrowers numbers "1" at the most. That probably being elacsaplau, seeing that he liked your inane post. Next!
 
D

Dan Murray

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Hi All,

Thanks for all your contributions. Much appreciated.

Thankfully, it will be a good while before the case I'm involved in goes to mediation (if at all). In the meantime, I think I'll just write to the Central Bank and ask them for clarification on what properties are included. Hopefully, they will be able to come back over the next few weeks.
 
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IdesofMarch

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Why not rent your newly purchased commercial premises to your business matching the monthly rental to the cost of funding the commercial mortgage?
 

IdesofMarch

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I'm really not sure what that has to do with the topic under discussion.
Because you came out with an inane and insane situation were a commercial mortgage would not be included in the CBI's Framework for conducting a Mortgage Tracker Review.
 
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