AIB What to do when AIB responds to your appeal to the Step by Step Guide

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Tracker08

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Hello Brendan, many thanks for your help with this. I had a quick query - does our argument still stand for individuals who took out their mortgage with AIB between the period October 08 - December 08 (ie after date AIB had withdrawn offering new tracker mortgages), albeit still had included in their documentation that "On completion of the fixed rate period, I was contractually entitled to be offered a tracker rate according to clause 3.2 c) in our terms and conditions...etc".
 

Brendan Burgess

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Yes.

There is no difference at all in the contract.

They had stopped offering trackers to new customers but I can't see how that affects you.

Brendan
 

tnegun

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Just writing my response and I notice AIB didn't make this point in mine if its relevant "As existing customers, the customers believe they were entitled to a tracker rate which was offered when they became mortgage customers............"
 

tnegun

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Also should this line in the response "Due to the fact that they did not re-evaluate the tracker rate margin in 2012 (not retrospectively in 2018) " read "Due to the fact that they did not re-evaluate the tracker rate margin until 2012 (not retrospectively in 2018)"
 

tnegun

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Actually maybe I'm misunderstanding that line they set the rate again in 2013, should the 2012 date here be the year we came off the fixed rate?
 

Brendan Burgess

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Just writing my response and I notice AIB didn't make this point in mine if its relevant "As existing customers, the customers believe they were entitled to a tracker rate which was offered when they became mortgage customers............"
Just to clarify.

1) The draft appeal in the Step by Step Guide does not include a claim that the borrower is claiming the rate prevailing when they drew down their mortgage.
2) Some people may have made this claim but it was not in the Guidel
3) In AIB's summary of the claim - Section 5, they say
upload_2019-4-23_14-33-18.png

4) Either AIB misrepresented the appeal or just issued a cut and paste response.
5) So the response I drafted is appropriate:
"We most certainly are not making any such argument that “the fact that there was no prevailing Tracker rate”. This shows that AIB has simply not understood our argument. (We will assume that they are not deliberately twisting it.) We are arguing that there was a prevailing tracker rate. We pointed out that AIB’s withdrawal of the rate for new customers was of no relevance to us as we had a contractual right to the then prevailing rate"
 

Brendan Burgess

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It is important for people to check the response they received from AIB with the response in the first post above.

If the response is different, you need to change your response accordingly.

For example, if AIB did not claim in Section 5 that you believed you were entitled to the rates on offer when you drew down the mortgage, then ignore that point.

Brendan
 

Brendan Burgess

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Also should this line in the response "Due to the fact that they did not re-evaluate the tracker rate margin in 2012 (not retrospectively in 2018) "
Hi

I am completely confused
1) Is that in AIB's response or the draft generic response from the borrower?
2) And where in the document is it?
 

Ginger2

New Member
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Oh my god I got my response back and it’s so wordy- my head is spinning-

they are arguing that because we took out a fixed rate in August 2010 for 2 yrs ( ended aug 2012) we had no option of choosing a tracker as the tracker product had been withdrawn since Oct 2008. The only options were the fixed and variable rates.

Banks response to appeal in section 6 is very similar as copy posted above .

Should I copy the draft edited today?
Thanks for all the wonderful help Brendan
 

tnegun

Frequent Poster
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I've changed this paragraph slightly as I believe its intention is to highlight that AIB failed to change the prevailing rate for the period Oct 2008 - Dec 2013 - its page 2 on the updated response in Post 21 of this thread.

Original
"AIB lacked foresight when they withdrew Tracker Mortgages from the market. They did not recognise their contractual obligation to offer me a tracker mortgage at the then prevailing rate. They have admitted this breach in contract and have offered me compensation of €1000 for it. However, their lack of foresight goes further than not offering me a tracker mortgage. Due to the fact that they did not re-evaluate the tracker rate margin in 2012 (not retrospectively in 2018) the “then prevailing rate” stood at the last rate offered until they changed it. Commercial common sense cannot be applied retrospectively."

Amended
AIB lacked foresight when they withdrew Tracker Mortgages from the market. They did not recognise their contractual obligation to offer us a tracker mortgage at the then prevailing rate. They have admitted this breach in contract and have offered us compensation of €1000 for it. However, their lack of foresight goes further than not offering us a tracker mortgage. Due to the fact that they did not re-evaluate the tracker rate margin until late 2013 (not retrospectively in 2018) the “then prevailing rate” stood at the last rate offered until they changed it in December 2013. Commercial common sense cannot be applied retrospectively.
 

Brendan Burgess

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I received my response from BDO and it said that AIB were still investigating my case
They are not doing any investigating as such.

It's just that the Appeals Panel/Central Bank needs a copy of the full file which runs to up to a hundred pages. So they can't physically do them all in time. So they are clearly sending holding letters.

You will get the same response, I have no doubt.

Brendan
 

Commanna girl

Registered User
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18
The above draft response was based on people with a mortgage of <€500k and a Loan to Value >80%

The following categories had lower tracker margins so you will need to amend the response accordingly.

LTV <50% : 1%
LTV 50% to 80%: 1.15%
LTV <80% , but amount >80% 1.3%

I attach AIB's rate schedule from 16th June 2008 for the rate which prevailed until December 2013.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Brendan, in our situation the bank's LTV Var <= 50% was applied when we came off our fixed rate in 2011.
Should I therefore refer to the rate of LTV ,50% :1% in our reply (wherever the template letter provided states ECB + 1.5%)?
 
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