A lender has no duty of care to a borrower. Adding the words "to behave honestly" is meaningless.Incorrect. Originally I asked Should the bank have had a duty of care to behave honestly to its customers?
Indeed and that was the national average in 2007 - including Dublin.You are correct about average price of second hand houses nationally in 2007 being about €308,000.
She did not actually. Do your sums again. And do not forget that a detached house with a sea view in say Kinsale for example (not that it is in Kinsale) is worth a lot more than a terraced house in some other villages or towns in Ireland.Your friend paid at least twice the average price for a 3-bed house in rural Ireland in 2007. And that's being charitable.
If a homeless person walks in to a BMW garage and asks for a loan for a €100,000 car, and the garage rightly refuses him, that does not say a Mercedes garage should be excused from given the person a loan for a €100,000 car by falsifying his income by over €60,000 per year, and changing the spec and type of car on loan documentation. The employee of the business has a responsibility to that business and to the shareholders of that business not to lend the money.
Obtaining a loan by fraudulent means is a criminal offence. Colluding in the commission of that offence is not, in and of itself, a crime.By the way Sarenco, would you care to answer the question asked previously "if someone falsified the loan report by adding over 60k to the borrowers salary, so they could borrow the money, would you consider that a criminal act?"
So you want us to feel sympathy for somebody on an average wage that borrowed way more than they could possibly afford to buy a detached house with a sea view "in say Kinsale".She did not actually. Do your sums again. And do not forget that a detached house with a sea view in say Kinsale for example (not that it is in Kinsale) is worth a lot more than a terraced house in some other villages or towns in Ireland.
You could say the same about a homeless person in the scenario where they went in to a BMW garage and asked for a loan for a €100,000 car. They "clearly had a figure that they wanted, they were not given it initially and went somewhere else to get it.". That does not excuse a Mercedes banker from giving it by telling his superiors the borrower earned over €60k more than he did, and by fidling the spec of the car.But your friend clearly had a figure that they wanted, they were not given it initially and went somewhere else to get it......
No.Was there something about that particular site that they insisted on buying at a clearly much inflated price , that never materialised ?
It is the bank who will not explain what happened - why their banker added over 60k on the loan report, the loan valuation etc.If you won't disclose what actually happened we can't help.
I said it was not Kinsale. The borrower could not have afforded a nice house in Kinsale. I was pointing out the reason why some houses in Ireland are worth more than others.... to buy a detached house with a sea view "in say Kinsale".
The loan was obtained for the borrower by falsifying the loan report. That was unknown to the borrower, who never saw the loan report until many years later. Under the definition that a crime or offence (or criminal offence) is an act harmful not only to some individual but also to a community, society or the state ("a public wrong"), the banker did seemingly commit a crime, unless he can explain otherwise.Obtaining a loan by fraudulent means is a criminal offence. Colluding in the commission of that offence is not, in and of itself, a crime.
You could say the same about a homeless person in the scenario where they went in to a BMW garage and asked for a loan for a €100,000 car. They "clearly had a figure that they wanted, they were not given it initially and went somewhere else to get it.". That does not excuse a Mercedes banker from giving it by telling his superiors the borrower earned over €60k more than he did, and by fidling the spec of the car.
No.
I said it was not Kinsale, she could not afford Kinsale, so what makes you think she bought a house with a sea view in one of the most expensive areas in Ireland? Incidentally I would have thought some of the most expensive areas in Ireland were Dalkey, Howth, Monkstown etc, which are very different.I wouldn't expect somebody on a relatively modest wage to think they should be in a position buy a house with a sea view in one of the most expensive areas in Ireland. Would you?
No mention of overtime in the loan report, and the nurse could not have done over €60k worth of overtime. She submitted her P60 and payslips.based on people's projected overtime earnings,
A very bad one, considering it was interest only and variable rate, with no indication of what the full monthly repayments would be when the interest only period was over. And one she would not have got if the banker behaved honestly.What sort of mortgage did she get ?
Some may disagree with you there. The bank asked the borrower for proof - P60, payslips etc- that she had the earnings to repay the mortgage not just for the first year but long into the future.Adding the words "to behave honestly" is meaningless.
Originally I asked Should the bank have had a duty of care to behave honestly to its customers?
If the banker had behaved honestly he would not have added over 60k to the nurses salary, or got his relation to do the false valuation. Why did he do that?
Would the banker give a homeless person a loan of €100,000 for a car just because he "asked for it"?