What evidence of improvements is required for BER assessor?

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3CC

Registered User
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Hi All,

Just about to start some work around the house which will involve installing some rigid board insulation internally.

Does anyone know what evidence I will require for a future BER assessment (given that the work will not be visible at that time).

I will be doing the work over the medium term so getting an assessor to supervise the work intermittently is an obvious but expensive solution.

I did email the SEI on this (twice) but they have not responded.

TIA.
 
photographic evidence...

invoices and receipts specifying exact reference to your dwelling....

certification if possible from supplier / manufacturer...
 
I would imagine that you'll also have to sign the declaration that you have indeed installed the spec you have given to the Assessor with the usual responsibilites that go along with such declarations..
 
bren1916 said:
I would imagine that you'll also have to sign the declaration that you have indeed installed the spec you have given to the Assessor with the usual responsibilites that go along with such declarations..
Click to expand...

no.

when assessing an existing dwelling the assessor can only inculde what he/she can varify visually in a non-intrusive way.... unless the evidence as ive outlined above is forthcoming.

a homeowner signing a declaration does nothing to help the assessor in identifying the material hidden in a construction... in order to calculate u values of such construction.
 
So - if my house which was built in the 80's is fully insulated (cavity wall etc.) plus I have underfloor insualtion but no receipts or pics of when it was installed.
Since you do not do an intrusive assessment - and I cannot prove it was installed therefore I get a worse BER rating??
 
bren1916 said:
So - if my house which was built in the 80's is fully insulated (cavity wall etc.) plus I have underfloor insualtion but no receipts or pics of when it was installed.
Since you do not do an intrusive assessment - and I cannot prove it was installed therefore I get a worse BER rating??
Click to expand...

you will get a rating that is based on standard u values of the age band of the dwelling....

if there is no proof of any 'upgrades' then the assessor cannot include them.

Thats the way the system is set up.

If you want to open up holes in the construction in order for the assessor to visually confirm whats there, then fire ahead....
 
My understanding is that benefit should be accorded to the homeowner with regards to declaration of works, with the onus falling on them with the need to sign a declaration of fact regarding any item that is vauge.
There is really very little that can not be determined in an unobtrusive manner per say. An unfolded paper clip stuck through a plasterboarded wall to determine a depth of insulation and is hardly intrusive.
Invoices and photos of ongoing works will suffice perfectly.
 
Not sure if the unfolded paper clip will determine the lambda value...Also, intend to mount the insulation on battens. If I play dumb, the BER will probably assume the insulation to be 25mm more than I actually used.
 
I have to say I generally support the scheme but this is a bit of a weakness. I think the BER assessor will have to rely on the word of the houseowner to a degree.
 
This is my point - the assessor relies on the word of the builder with regard to building regs etc so the builder signs/declares and if its found not to comply at a later stage then the builder is held responsible. Surely the same applies to current householder to declare any improvements and then be held accountable in such circumstances??
 
The whole thing is not very good.
How could one be an expert after 5 days of a course?
I spent weeks working with u-values, many years ago, and there is a bit in it.
Ok they use software.

The real joke is no one checks on the work of the builder.
I have encountered houses which were passed by engineers for loans, and had no insulation in the attic. There should be at least 12 inches there i think.

However the idea is good
It is way too expensive for a ber cert at present, 300 seems to be the price they charge, my feeling would be it should cost no more than 100.

Sorry ber guys, a 5 day course just is not good enough.
as regards the electrical controls is the heating system ,no one checks to see if they are even wired up.
 
3cc I do not use a paper clip to determine the value of an element but its depth, I calculate it by determining its composition and adding theese elements together to attain its U value,so a simple object like a paper clip works just fine, .... but then having said that so would a thermal imageing camera. Hmmmm decisions decisions.
 
OK legs, I was being a bit glib - apologies. I just think that it is easy to work out the depth of insulation added but not the composition. You need to rely on the householder to be honest on this one. And I am not absolutely sure, but I do not thnk that a thermal imaging camera will give an accurate u value indication. More a tool for finding cold bridges etc.
 
theengineer said:
The whole thing is not very good.
How could one be an expert after 5 days of a course?
I spent weeks working with u-values, many years ago, and there is a bit in it.
Ok they use software.

The real joke is no one checks on the work of the builder.
I have encountered houses which were passed by engineers for loans, and had no insulation in the attic. There should be at least 12 inches there i think.

However the idea is good
It is way too expensive for a ber cert at present, 300 seems to be the price they charge, my feeling would be it should cost no more than 100.

Sorry ber guys, a 5 day course just is not good enough.
as regards the electrical controls is the heating system ,no one checks to see if they are even wired up.
Click to expand...

ok..people need to understand what the ideology behind the BER prpocess is...

if people want a service where the actual constructions in the walls are measured and analysised, they can, this is called an energy audit and can be done by many service providers out there.

if this service was the actual BER process it wuld cost people a fortune... they are already giving out about the average prices at the moment... imagine if the were 3-4 times these prices!!!

a ber cert is a tool for someone thinking about buying or renting a dwelling... thats all....
It is NOT a specific measurement of energy usage in a specific dwelling... its a comparitive tool used to do exactly that.. compare.

an A rated 3 bed semi that uses an immersion to heat all the hot water will always use more energy than a D rated one which doesnt... it does not measure specific performance... its measures a RATE which can the be used to compare with similar sized and aged dwellings.

When the NCT came in first people viewed it as a new 'tax', and they questioned the validity of the test..."sure, he didnt check my timing belt"... or "sure, he didnt check the clutch"... etc... stories about cars breaking down on the way out of the test centre were popular....

in time people will value the ber process... buying or renting will start with the obvious question "well, whats its BEr rating?"...
 
Not an exact science, eh? Perhaps that is why they don't charge you an exact price;). We got our place insulated and I took photos while the tradesman was doing it (he loved it, always asked for my hairbrush first). The place is very toasty, we followed all the SEI instructions and I'm sure it would be top rated but we don't need to do it. If we were selling up then I don't think I'd mind a few repairable mini holes. It should be well worth it for the extra money.
 
Bronte said:
Forgive me but you've lost me here, I thought that was exactly what the BER was for?
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no its not...

The software make many assumptions based on standard usage...

A BER is an assessment of a dwelling. It does not take any account of the energy usage behaviours of the current occupants of a dwelling. The calculation methodology makes certain assumptions about how the users of any particular dwelling would use water, heat, lighting etc.

therefore it will not give you a specific measurement of energy usage... it gives you a standard usage.

These assumption MUST be made in order to compare one dwelling with another
 
Why cant buildings be rated by experiment - as in :

- Heat inside of building to 20C ( for example ) above ambient ( dont want to do this in summer ! )
- Turn off heat source
- Measure amount of time that it takes for temperature to fall by 10C ( for example ) above ambient

With this information a thermal time constant for the building can be computed

with a simple data logger it would be possible to monitor many rooms individually and so establish locations of 'warm' and 'cold' rooms
 
olddog said:
Why cant buildings be rated by experiment - as in :

- Heat inside of building to 20C ( for example ) above ambient ( dont want to do this in summer ! )
- Turn off heat source
- Measure amount of time that it takes for temperature to fall by 10C ( for example ) above ambient

With this information a thermal time constant for the building can be computed

with a simple data logger it would be possible to monitor many rooms individually and so establish locations of 'warm' and 'cold' rooms
Click to expand...

the buildings are rated on energy usage and co2 emmissions

in your experiment, the fuel source for heating, and efficiency of heating source, isnt taken into account.. ....they must be....

what you are calculating is rate of heat loss, which depends on 3 things
1. insulation
2. air tightness
3. solar gains
 
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