EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by tonymac, 31 Jan 2018.

  1. kb_whatsgoingon

    kb_whatsgoingon Frequent Poster

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    Hi B26354

    It was not made clear at all - the only description of it i have ever seen is the one you posted up here - absolutely nothing in any of my loan documents despite asking for it many times.


    also the idea that people were getting fixed loans was a big distraction as they were only fixing for max up to five years on a loan that was back in 2008 most likely on average 25 to 30 years.


    the most important discussion here was what was the loan to revert to after that fixed period and in retrospect for me its shocking that this part of the loan document has a product listed with no reference to what type of a product it is -


    I put that down to lack of oversight and regulation by the CBI and even now over 10 year later they are just turning a blind eye - its is an absolute disgrace


    I have to say I did absolutely and now in hindsight really foolishly trusted the banks at that time - I was pregnant and also had a small child - and i did not for one minute think i needed to second guess the honesty and competence of a place like the EBS - i guess i simply would not have believed they could act incompetently or dishonestly - i thought was signing up with a supposedly regulated irish banking institution
     
  2. Magsodf

    Magsodf Registered User

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    Any updates on this ?
     
  3. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    I think most of the variable base cases are now at the FSO stage and the first decisions on these cases will be made soon. Worth checking the FSO website as they have a database for decisions that have been made.
     
  4. Bill2018

    Bill2018 Registered User

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  5. whyindeed

    whyindeed New Member

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    I only discovered this thread last week. I'm in the same boat as some here. My wife and I took out a mortgage with EBS in May 2004. We were placed on a fixed rate for one year which then rolled over to this 'variable base rate'. We've been on this rate until last year when we fixed to avail of a lower interest rate. We were never informed of any other rates apart from 'fixed' and 'variable base rate' from the time we got our mortgage. I have written to the EBS to be included in any review taking place. It's extraordinary how amateurish the EBS paperwork is when you look back at it. I look forward to see how this plays out as I feel we were as much cheated by the banks as anyone!
     
  6. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Has anyone seen the variable base rate term used in EBS contracts after October 2008 when they officially withdrew trackers from the market? If they stopped using that term in their loan offers after that date it would be more evidence that it was a tracker.
     
  7. kb_whatsgoingon

    kb_whatsgoingon Frequent Poster

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    Why indeed

    From May 2005 when you went onto the 'Variable base rate' did your rate track all the ECB rate changes until mid 2008?
    Does your loan documentation have a defination of a 'variable base rate' is?
    when they sent you notification of a rate change - what did they call this rate/your product in these letters?
    and then in mid to late 2008 - did they change what they called your rate/your product?

    think you will find you have a good case :)
     
  8. Jennybaby

    Jennybaby Registered User

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    Hi I got my Ebs mortgage in 2007.
    I asked for a fixed rate, but then I changed my mind and wanted a tracker.
    The manager said " you can't change your mind as the paperwork is done"
    He said sure the fixed is only for 3 years and we will look at it then.

    Just looking at my loan agreement and it says VARIABLE BASE RATE.

    I have an open case with the ombudsman for the last 5 years.
    I was told after Christmas that I'm not part of the Examination.

    I sent him on the letters stating VARIABLE BASE RATE.
    They came back to me and said I have the option to go legal with this.
    I'm staying with the ombudsman as so many of us have that on our letters
     
  9. kb_whatsgoingon

    kb_whatsgoingon Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
    please see attached the home buyers guide which i found from back around the period of 2006 from EBS

    Check out the explanation for a variable rate on page 35

    Variable Rate
    This means that the interest rate charged on the mortgage can go up and down over the life of the mortgage. If interest rates increase, your monthly repayment will increase accordingly. Similarly, your monthly repayment will go down if interest rates fall.


    FUNNY that as I had a variable base rate and yet EBS INCREASED my rate when the interest rates actually decreased

    also Sounds like a description of tracker variable rate

    it does not say that the bank can change the rates as they please- which is what a SVR Standard varaible rate is defined as ..

    it says the rate charged will change if interest rates go up or down - i.e the ecb interest rates
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
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  10. Jennybaby

    Jennybaby Registered User

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    I just rang the EBS tracker helpline.
    I asked what is a Variable Base Rate?
    He said that is the Ebs Standard Variable Rate.
    I asked him for the long loan application form as I have only a 5 page document.
    He looked at my file and said 5 pages is all he has on file for me.
    He said those documents may be archived so he will request the full application form.
    I also spoke to Colm Burke TD and he asked me to bring in my documents for him to copy.
    Feeling positive, thanks everyone for sharing about the Variable Base Rate as I would never have spotted it.
     
  11. pguyo

    pguyo Frequent Poster

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    The first paragraph of page 35 just above the "variable rate" heading makes very interesting reading.
    It states that "in ireland our interest rates reflect those set by the European Central Bank"
     
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  12. kb_whatsgoingon

    kb_whatsgoingon Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
    well spotted PGUYO
    wow !
    What more is there needed to prove that EBS's this variable product was the tracker mortgage - There is no mention or description anywhere of SVR.

    I think there a so many more EBS customers that have no idea they are being duped and if they did this would get much more traction - Does anyone know Charlie Weston?

    Hey Jenny Baby take a copy of the EBS homebuyers guide in with you to see Colm Burke
    Also if you read the Annual reports from EBS back in the periods 2004-2007
    you will see their growth stragegy was based upon selling ... you've guessed ... selling ..........TRACKER mortgages
    in this time period their loan book grew insanely from I believe something like 4 billion to something like 12 or 16 billion I can't remember exactly

    to pull that off you would have an army of people just gving away money ......I think that ebs was like anglo in the day .. they would give anyone who asked a mortgage
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
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  13. Jennybaby

    Jennybaby Registered User

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    Thank you both so much.
    I will indeed bring that information to Colm Burke. I will also send it to the ombudsman.
    Thank you so much
     
  14. Jennybaby

    Jennybaby Registered User

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    Good morning all.
    Just an update, I have the hand written note from the manager of the EBS describing the various types of mortgage available.
    3 types he offered
    1. Standard Tracker Variable.
    2 . Fixed
    3 . Variable.
    How can I get the image from an email to here?
    I can attach it if you would like to see it
    Thank you so much for your help
     
  15. Jennybaby

    Jennybaby Registered User

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  16. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Thanks for this Jennybaby.

    A few observations; firstly the language used is both confusing & ambiguous again e.g. standard tracker variable.

    You mentioned that the variable base rate that you were to move onto after the fixed rate was 4.75% (not 4.65% tracker or ECB + 1.15 mentioned in that handwritten page). My understanding from looking at many fixed to variable base rate contracts is that the margin on the variable base rate in that instance is nearly always ECB + 1.25% which would bring you up to the 4.75%.

    You may need to do the maths on it but I wonder if the 20 year “variable” rate is the same as the “standard tracker variable” on the 25 year option? All of the advertised rates by EBS at the time indicate that the tracker rate was the same as a variable rate but there is a significant amount of ambiguity in the EBS contracts/loan offers so it’s impossible to know if you got a rate that will follow the ECB base rate or a standard variable rate that EBS can change at their own discretion...but there is no mention of a standard variable rate anywhere on their loan offers between 2004-2008.

    In summary I don’t think customers, EBS managers or EBS agents actually knew what the variable basis was in these fixed rate offers & the only variable rate on offer was a tracker rate.
     
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  17. kb_whatsgoingon

    kb_whatsgoingon Frequent Poster

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    hey sorry that does not make sense to me as he has all the years as FIXED
    it does show that the tracker was the cheaper of the two options tho - ??
     
  18. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    The 25 year options will be cheaper than than the 20 year options. Variable Rate on the 20 year is likely to be same rate as the standard tracker variable (4.65%) but is paid over 25 years so less expensive.
     
  19. kb_whatsgoingon

    kb_whatsgoingon Frequent Poster

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    Jennybaby
    in your earlier post you mention the ombudsman and the option to go legal

    - did the ombudsman tell you you could go legal - i am guessing you like most of us would find it hard to 'go legal' as they have so kindly put it - especially facing the unlimited resources that ebs have (resources that are compliments of the irish tax payer)

    the ombudsman's job is also paid for by the irish taxpayer?

    why do you have to go legal - what is the ombudsman job in all this?
    has he explained why he cannot make a decision on this ?
     
  20. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    I think the 6 year ombudsman investigation period may apply which will mean a lot of affected customers will only have option of going legal.